Challenger Drag Pak Owners

[Irv Johns]

Yes I was talking about the one at Mecum. I really dont know what condition its in. I do see the AEM on the fender well and headers. But as far as the fuel rails mine are stock also.. Maybe I can get more HP if i change them LOL.. It also says Goodyear slicks. but shows only transport tires in photos

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Not the fuel rails the 3/8 rubber line, no clamps and single in no out, with the pressure gauge just kinda hanging there.......youre really running a returnless system with the Fast ? How are you modulating pump pressure ? Im ASSUMING you are running at least a -8 on the fuel line, and maybe like us a -10, youre not running the brown tips either. I have seen 2 or 3 cars that shipped with them, Id be pissed as they need changed for at least the 48lb injectors which do atomize better than the higher rated injector if you supply em with around 72...Cant tell me your pulling of 9.74's at your weight with a -6 or smaller fuel line, no way with as thirsty as yours has to be.

Obviously you can run a closed circuit, we did in testing for the FI system, but there are obvious benefits in an open circut system.

I think the "Goodyear Slicks" were also originally listed on the Mopar spec, before things changed....

Originally Posted by Irv Johns

Yes I was talking about the one at Mecum. I really dont know what condition its in. I do see the AEM on the fender well and headers. But as far as the fuel rails mine are stock also.. Maybe I can get more HP if i change them LOL.. It also says Goodyear slicks. but shows only transport tires in photos

[magnumv8]

Hey Chris....Mopar has been using a system similar for years,with the return inside the fuel tank with the pump, reason?....no engine warmed fuel being recycled back into the fuel tank,one less fuel line also.uh-oh,now everyone knows....Electromotive's Tec3r system in their instructions says that a properly set up system requires NO fuel pressure regulator...hmmmmm.......on a carb setup universally the regulator goes before the fuel mixer(carb) on a fuel injection system the regulator can go before OR after the mixer(injector),so you can either do a return from the injector rail system or dead head the fuel at the rails with the regulator at the tank....which is better? depends on the setup and the only way to find out is to try them all....

The main issue that is the hardest to deal with is the "airation" of your fuel(bubbles in the fuel)...since fuel pressure is higher with injection it can happen real easy and be really hard to diagnose...line sizes are another area where you need to optimize the flow....a line larger than what you need can hurt you as much as one too small...as long as you can cover the required gpm with the optimum fps(feet per second) that you need with a certain size there is no need to go bigger...in fact fluid dynamics will actually HURT your flow if the lines get too big( too large of a subject for here)

On a "push-lok" pressure hose you do not want clamps on it because the barbs are so sharp they will cut the hose from the inside with the force of the clamp on the outside of the hose, I don't remember the max pressure some of these are rated for but I do know that some will hold 200 psi with no problem....

D L Rambo....

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Check and I understand all that, on the cars (vs their Street cousins) I can adjust my supply pressure with a regulator after much finer than in a closed loop system, there I need to modulate the pump (as the St units do) to maintain a constant pressure.

That was why I was curious as to how hes modulating the pump for contant and steady pressure, obviously a WOT burst will cause a drop in the line pressure, then the electronics have to say Oh **** run the pump, there is a delay and a POTENTIAL for inconsistent pressure.

Without being able to bodulate and control pressure exactly your not going to be able to gain constant and reliable atomization when these (the SRT 4) injectors atomize best at a given pressure on the DOT. Now granted thats not where theyre supposed to run but its where the spray patten is best (I saw just this on a fuel test bench) and its common knowlede (supposedly) with the SRT guys.

Soooooo

If you can see that thats push lok line and not rubber hose your eyes are better than mine (and thats not suprising as Im blind as a bat) but what is obvious about the Mecum car is its a hack all the way around AT LEAST when those pics were taken.

Also fluid to fluid friction can cause cavitation and bubbles as well, BUT even knowing that I still ran my return line in the bottom , why ? Because it looks better and will cut down on aeration.....I can change it later....I also unlike many others opted for a check valve before the rail to hold line volume....didnt have to but I could and its right so I did....

(no making fun of my lines I hadnt finished moutning them

Originally Posted by magnumv8

Hey Chris....Mopar has been using a system similar for years,with the return inside the fuel tank with the pump, reason?....no engine warmed fuel being recycled back into the fuel tank,one less fuel line also.uh-oh,now everyone knows....Electromotive's Tec3r system in their instructions says that a properly set up system requires NO fuel pressure regulator...hmmmmm.......on a carb setup universally the regulator goes before the fuel mixer(carb) on a fuel injection system the regulator can go before OR after the mixer(injector),so you can either do a return from the injector rail system or dead head the fuel at the rails with the regulator at the tank....which is better? depends on the setup and the only way to find out is to try them all....

The main issue that is the hardest to deal with is the "airation" of your fuel(bubbles in the fuel)...since fuel pressure is higher with injection it can happen real easy and be really hard to diagnose

On a "push-lok" pressure hose you do not want clamps on it because the barbs are so sharp they will cut the hose from the inside with the force of the clamp on the outside of the hose, I don't remember the max pressure some of these are rated for but I do know that some will hold 200 psi with no problem....

D L Rambo....

[Irv Johns]

"Obviously you can run a closed circuit, we did in testing for the FI system, but there are obvious benefits in an open circut system." by Drooze


wow! do you think I can pick up by changing my fuel plumbing>>>> I hope so...Ive got -4 going to my fuel rails

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Yer funny....-4, I pee a bigger stream than that.....The benefits arent in speed Irv , obviously....and No I dont think you can pick up......well see at Pomona.....the question isnt right now HOW were going to run its IF were going to run....Damm forecast dosent look good for this week.

Ill be happy to send you a vid of the atomization tests on the fuel test bench, if youre telling me that with your system you can hold a steady 72 psi +/- .25 psi, cool, it can be done with a closed system, but for the 3 rd time, thats why I was wondering HOW , if you even know, HOW are you modulating your pump and line pressure. When running from idle to WOT , I wasnt aware the FAST or AEM was that accurate in pump handling and it was a curiousity question , NOT a cant be done, the BENEFITS of an open system is I can hold that pressure and not depend on electronics to handle it, then again maybe your running yours stuffed and dont know it ? There are benefits to a closed system too.......

I cant remeber if youre running the AEM or FAST, I know they have provisions for it, so Im not suprised if thats how its being done. But I am actually suprised at with all the guys you have help , experienced people who know their stuff, that that was the system you ended up with.

Pomona is gonna be FUN ! Cant wait to meet you......

Read my blog tongiht if you want a real suprise of something you said either couldnt be done, or noone had yet I cant remeber

Originally Posted by Irv Johns

"Obviously you can run a closed circuit, we did in testing for the FI system, but there are obvious benefits in an open circut system." by Drooze


wow! do you think I can pick up by changing my fuel plumbing>>>> I hope so...Ive got -4 going to my fuel rails

[Irv Johns]

OK I give what blog???

[Mike Roth]

As my good friend Mike Kuhl once said, "Spare me your technical bullsh#t, show me your timeslip"
Drooze, maybe you should call your shop "new2hemiracing".... especially if you think these cars are capable of making an eight second pass. It's evident you have no clue what that actually takes. Mike

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

An 8.99, yes I think in a year they will be capable possibly,youve ever put your hands in one of the Drag Pak motors, and know what the numbers on the spec side (not the blueprint guide) but flow numbers and dyno numbers of these engines then yes.... well I can tell you there are about 5 other guys right now who were sharing R&D info with that all agree between us well have 6 cam profiles and 5 different configs of headers as well as the trans stuff all by Gainesville....soo....much more effort than we could afford to do on our own or them on their own.....do any of us think its guarenteed ? No, do we think its possible , yes......are on the Im not saying its a lock, Im saying its possible I believe with some R&D and running out.......They are already with the few out there at 9.7s and fat. soooooooo......Probably the way they are theyre already good for 9.6.

Like I said to someone else my favorite quote is from Einstein "Wether you think you can or not youre right" so, in as much as you building one youre right, in as much as me building one Im right, were both right see how easy that was

Timeslips coming Pomona to Gainesville

Irv, the blog is http://newhemiracing.blogspot.com, I did it so I could track build progress and show others what they will be up against in terms of those like us who choose to do the rest of the build themselves with their own hands. Stupid shtuffzzz like this will get in the way of that and the like.

In as much as having no clue goes.......Its late and Im tired so maybe I took what you said the wrong way. If not, Ill be happy to wager Our car will be faster by Gainesville than any of your DP builds Name the stakes something friendly and in good spirit. Lunch, Dinner, a Ball Game. I heard you were doing a few more builds is that correct ? (Mind asking who for Zeeeee list ?)

Well see in a year from now if I was right, and youll see our timeslips dont expect our combo to be dialed in and wrung out till Gainesville.....Its looking very possible well be showing up at Pomona untested.

Would be a real kick to you guys if the guys who dont know jack run faster the first time out than Warford did wouldnt it

Cheers

Chris

Originally Posted by Mike Roth

As my good friend Mike Kuhl once said, "Spare me your technical bullsh#t, show me your timeslip"
Drooze, maybe you should call your shop "new2hemiracing".... especially if you think these cars are capable of making an eight second pass. It's evident you have no clue what that actually takes. Mike

[D.Holly]

#69 on e-bay. Item # 260545446124