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Old 03-24-2013, 11:49 AM   #1
brent flynn
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Default Stocker pistons...

JE vs CP vs ? Are they all about the same, quality/price wise/performance? CP quoted me about 1500... i about choked... JE is about 970.00 These are Pontiac pistons....'67-'79 Flat tops...i havent heard back from Venolia or Ross, yet....
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Stocker pistons...

You'll do fine with JE, I use them in my Stock Eliminator engines, with Total Seal rings (I buy my oil rings direct from Speed Pro) and Trend wrist pins, with Kramm-Lox wire pin locks. My JE rep is Rick Leininger. I do buy from CP as well, they did my Super Stock pistons for the 396, they're good people, my rep there is Ed Urcis. H.M. Elliott coats all of my piston skirts, and my bearings, regardless of brand.

By the way, before placing an order on pistons, speak with your ring supplier and get the exact groove sizes they want for their ring package. I have Keith at Total Seal give me the dimensions he wants, and copy my piston rep on the emails so everyone is on the same page.
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: Stocker pistons...

Thanks for the info, Alan... much appreciated...
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Stocker pistons...

My take is that JE took TRW pistons and copied them with some design improvements. So if TRW got the valve notches in the right place, then your OK. Unfortunately that is not always true.
CP came along and used factory OEM blueprints. CP found that TRW pistons were sometimes off. Being that P/V clearance is critical, that could be a big deal. And when CP started, they had the latest and greatest ring groove cutting fixtures. I do not know if JE has invested in the latest machinery for that operation but as you know, ring clearance is crucial to performance.
The bottom line, and this is just my opinion, there is a reason why you are seeing a 50% price difference. Ask these questions when you call them back.
You might also call Diamond or even Weisco. I have experience with Diamond but not with Weisco.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: Stocker pistons...

Thanks Jeff.... alot to learn, building a Stocker engine... some of you guys have been at it awhile... I turn 44, in a few months, and this is my 1st attempt. Gonna see what i can do, on a fairly tight budget... Hope to be at 2014 Indy points meet...i only live an hour from there! Shortblock goin to machine shop in a couple weeks... Tryin' to research pistons, dont wanna waste any money on the bottom end...
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:00 PM   #6
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Wink Re: Stocker pistons...

Brent,

As you are finding out everything cost motor for Pontiac's ... They don't make that many & that drives up the price ... I would shop around for a used shortblock to start & go from there .. Good Luck with your project.
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:05 AM   #7
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Default Re: Stocker pistons...

My experience was that switching from TRW pistons on my first stocker engine to CP piston technology made a world of difference! We had flogged the TRW engine extensively to a best of 11.39 on the then 12.00 index in E/SA. Cal Method advised me to ditch the old school TRW's, and get CP pistons with new technology and a stocker ring package, modern skirt design and extremely accurate ring land machining. After the changes, we eventually got to a best of 10.73. Not saying it was all in the pistons/rings, but they improved the ring seal and lowered drag so much that we could then rpm higher, tune differently, gear differently and the engine became tuneable and responsive to other changes. In my opinion, optimal ring seal is crucial. If you are building to go fast, you need the best parts and machine work here to make everything else effective. If you are building this engine wanting to go a long way under the index, start with the good piston/ring combination and optimize the short block. Later you can build on that good foundation, it's only $500. difference! When you consider all the other machine work, parts and labor you will need this is money well spent.
Otherwise, you may be limited in how far you can get and have to either be satisfied with slower times or building another better short block later, as we had to do. Cheaper in the end to do it once using the best parts. Not knocking the JE or other new piston brands, but the CP are definitely an excellent piston, just my two cents....

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Old 03-25-2013, 06:37 AM   #8
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Default Re: Stocker pistons...

Thanks Grant... i hear what you are sayin... I want to do the best shortblock that i can... i may have to save a couple more bucks and go with CP... I just want to know what most of the guys are running... im definitely leaning toward CP... Hard to believe, that Venolia or JE, wouldnt have it together, like CP... considering how long theyve been in business.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:04 AM   #9
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Default Re: Stocker pistons...

JE has it together. Their ring grooves are as good as anyone's. Their skirt design is excellent. And no, they are not making a TRW copy, not even close. They make a state of the art piston. I use both CP and JE, and if JE pistons were not every bit as good as JE, or CP pistons were not every bit as good as JE, I would not use the lesser brand.

Diamond will make a Stock Eliminator piston. They make good pistons. but if they do not have one on the shelf, you will pay for development costs, and you'll wait for them to submit, and NHRA to approve. Wiseco will do the same, but once again, you pay, and you wait.

I have been through the NHRA approval process, personally. Think root canal. With no anesthetic. It took nine months, and NHRA approved one design and set of dimensions, then crawfished/backpedaled, and we started all over.

One other thing. Last year, we ran into a problem with an engine early in the year ( I won't say what happened, just that it wasn't one of my engines) and I needed to build a new engine "from scratch". Rick and JE stepped up, I got a set of new pistons, with the latest and greatest of everything, I got them in two weeks, and I did not have to pay any expedite fees. That engine was on the dyno nearly a month ahead of schedule, made great power, and the ring seal was perfect. There is no question in my mind about the quality or service from JE, nor about the excellence in design.
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Old 03-25-2013, 02:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: Stocker pistons...

To be more clear on my prior post, I was specifically referring to the valve pockets ONLY on the JE pistons. And to be fair to JE, that was years ago (about the time that CP was new to our market) and JE may have fixed the issue. In fact, they may be cutting the ring lands with a laser by now. So ask.

I suppose the question to ask any piston maker is a) what are the control tolerances on the ring lands, and b) what defines the valve notch (or dome or dish as it may be)? There's a lot more to it as well. How is the skirt ground?
And some pistons will be perfectly legal yet yield a higher compression ratio.

Realistically, you should have your machinist order the pistons and ask all the questions. If he's an experienced engine builder and knows how to make power, let him do what he has to do. And you have to take into account bore diameter and ring package availability. I've spent upwards of $1200 on rings because they were a bastard size. Now that NHRA allows a larger bore size than in the past, it's worked out for me as I can now get something closer to the common 4.250". That will save a lot of money!

You gotta take it all in and I'd say the last consideration should be the price!
Ring seal...ring seal...ring seal!
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