HOME MAGAZINE FORUM RULES SPONSORS CONTACT
     
   
   
 
Go Back   CLASS RACER FORUM > Class Racer Forums > Stock and Super Stock Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-14-2011, 10:25 PM   #11
eddie c
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Southeastern Pa.
Posts: 53
Default Re: ceramic bearings

If you could only afford one set of ceramic bearings, which set would give
you the biggest advantage? ed
eddie c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 11:39 AM   #12
Jeff Lee
VIP Member
 
Jeff Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Anthem, Arizona
Posts: 2,883
Default Re: ceramic bearings

My GUESS would be rear end. I have a Dana 60 with all MW parts. I'm about to get the Performance bearings package for the entire rear. I just need the shop to narrow the axle tubes, put new ends on it and get final measurements so I can get the new axles ordered. Previous axles were MW 40 spline with 11/16" rifle bore. New axles will be MW 40 spline with 1 1/16" rifle bore and 300M material. I'm also changing from 5:13 ratio to 5.86 ratio. Both the old and new ring gear are back-cut. The R&P will be coated (see last paragraph).
I'll take a measurement of torque to rotate the pinion before and after and post the results here. I'm not sure how or if I should measure torque at the axle? Don't expect this next week, this shop is slower than molasses! But we had a long talk yesterday and he's made a commitment to get the chassis & engine done by the end of this year. I'll believe it when I see it but I'm making a big push. I will push real hard to get the Dana up and ready to run. That also involves setting the engine / trans in the car with new motor plates to determine positioning of the Dana and axle size left & right. I'm not sure what MW's lead time is on these 300M axles. So just pushing for the rear-end to be completed will get the chassis well on the way to completion.

FYI - Same shop has had a hand in a customers vintage 4-cylinder road race car. After using a propriety coating on all bearings and bushings from front to rear (spindles, trans, rear), the car reduced lap times by 8 seconds. That's huge. He also believes that true ceramic bearings would be better yet.
__________________
Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX
Jeff Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 01:01 PM   #13
Chris Barnes
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 139
Default Re: ceramic bearings

I know that top of the line professional bicycles use ceramic bearings. The general consensus is that they are worth it if you must keep up with the Joneses with a big budget but that there are generally a few better ways to spend money for regular folks.

Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
Stock 6621
Chris Barnes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 01:45 PM   #14
Jeff Lee
VIP Member
 
Jeff Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Anthem, Arizona
Posts: 2,883
Default Re: ceramic bearings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barnes View Post
I know that top of the line professional bicycles use ceramic bearings. The general consensus is that they are worth it if you must keep up with the Joneses with a big budget but that there are generally a few better ways to spend money for regular folks.

Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
Stock 6621
I got on this kick when I took apart my son's fancy looking bike purchased from Wal-Mart. I wanted to see if I could make it faster. So I looked at the bearings and I was going to put synthetic grease in crank. The bearings and cage looked like sand cast bearings and the cage was a folded over piece of junk. Then I went to a bike shop and saw what the more expensive bikes used. And we're talking the $350 kids bikes over the $79 Wal-Mart bikes; not the high end race bikes. Night and day difference. Now I know why I get on my Wal-Mart Mtn. bike I'm huffing and puffing in a few blocks but when I try the other guys $800 bikes it's enjoyable.
But yes, I'm sure $$ can be spent elsewhere for better gains and if it's not in the budget, then that takes care of that. But then again I see people spend $20K on an engine and cry like a baby over spending $2,000 to $3,000 on a clutch that will actually let the car perform like it should.
__________________
Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX
Jeff Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 02:25 PM   #15
Chris Barnes
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 139
Default Re: ceramic bearings

It's just one more example of how a race car or bike is the some of it's parts.

Jumping on a nice bike after a crappy one is impressive. I think the biggest gain on a bike is the light wheels. If you could fit Lance Armstrong's wheels on your Huffy you would be amazed. Hold a heavy wheel in your hand and spin it, it will pull you around the room. Do the same with a light wheel and feel the difference. Of course you would also notice the better bearings during this experiment.

Speaking of bearings, wouldn't changing over to ball bearings and lighter lube accomplish much of what we're trying to get from the ceramics?

Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
Stock 6621
Chris Barnes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 02:59 AM   #16
Pvt Parts
Member
 
Pvt Parts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Avon, Indiana
Posts: 332
Default Re: ceramic bearings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Lee View Post
My GUESS would be rear end. I have a Dana 60 with all MW parts. I'm about to get the Performance bearings package for the entire rear. I just need the shop to narrow the axle tubes, put new ends on it and get final measurements so I can get the new axles ordered. Previous axles were MW 40 spline with 11/16" rifle bore. New axles will be MW 40 spline with 1 1/16" rifle bore and 300M material. I'm also changing from 5:13 ratio to 5.86 ratio. Both the old and new ring gear are back-cut. The R&P will be coated (see last paragraph).
I'll take a measurement of torque to rotate the pinion before and after and post the results here. I'm not sure how or if I should measure torque at the axle? Don't expect this next week, this shop is slower than molasses! But we had a long talk yesterday and he's made a commitment to get the chassis & engine done by the end of this year. I'll believe it when I see it but I'm making a big push. I will push real hard to get the Dana up and ready to run. That also involves setting the engine / trans in the car with new motor plates to determine positioning of the Dana and axle size left & right. I'm not sure what MW's lead time is on these 300M axles. So just pushing for the rear-end to be completed will get the chassis well on the way to completion.

FYI - Same shop has had a hand in a customers vintage 4-cylinder road race car. After using a propriety coating on all bearings and bushings from front to rear (spindles, trans, rear), the car reduced lap times by 8 seconds. That's huge. He also believes that true ceramic bearings would be better yet.

If you are spending that much money, why didn't you just put a new 9" under the car with an alum center.
__________________
Scott Wilcox 2193 3x National Champion
SS/A, SS/B, SS/K, SS/L, SS/AM, A/SM, C/SM, B/A, C/A, G/A, H/A
Pvt Parts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 03:46 PM   #17
Jeff Lee
VIP Member
 
Jeff Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Anthem, Arizona
Posts: 2,883
Default Re: ceramic bearings

A) I never see a Dana break & I see 9" break. I've been through 3 different gear sets & they always look like new.
B) Bearings are going to be the same one way or another.
C) I'm pretty sure the frictional loss is greater on a 9".
If I were into changing gears a lot, then a 9" would wipe out the other reasons.
__________________
Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX
Jeff Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 04:03 PM   #18
Jeff Lee
VIP Member
 
Jeff Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Anthem, Arizona
Posts: 2,883
Default Re: ceramic bearings

Oops
__________________
Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

Last edited by Jeff Lee; 10-16-2011 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Duplicate post
Jeff Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2011, 08:14 AM   #19
randy wilson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 882
Default Re: ceramic bearings

OK, now that we established this thread, the reason I started it was because a very well known, and successful comp racer told me he spent $ 20,000 on ceramic and never gained a thing. And I know he was trying to help, not lead us astray. What say everyone now. He said don't waste ur time or money.
__________________
don,t have one
randy wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2011, 08:40 PM   #20
Pvt Parts
Member
 
Pvt Parts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Avon, Indiana
Posts: 332
Default Re: ceramic bearings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Lee View Post
A) I never see a Dana break & I see 9" break. I've been through 3 different gear sets & they always look like new.
B) Bearings are going to be the same one way or another.
C) I'm pretty sure the frictional loss is greater on a 9".
If I were into changing gears a lot, then a 9" would wipe out the other reasons.


No Comment.
__________________
Scott Wilcox 2193 3x National Champion
SS/A, SS/B, SS/K, SS/L, SS/AM, A/SM, C/SM, B/A, C/A, G/A, H/A
Pvt Parts is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Class Racer.com. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.Ad Management plugin by RedTyger