...excessive Braking Is Interesting..

wsmracing · 09-27-2007, 08:04 PM

Just How Far Do You Go To Protect An Index Or Win One More Round..?......is It Worth That Much..?

Jason Oldfield · 09-28-2007, 12:01 AM

Just as a note, if my calculations are correct (and they usually are), scrubbing a tenth would require scrubbing more than 20 mph over a distance of about 130 ft., which is twice the distance from the MPH cone to the finish line. I'm not going to say that I'll never have somebody dump that hard against me, but so far I never have.

In most cases people have usually waited until the MPH stripe to dump, which would mean to scrub a tenth, they'd have to lose approximately 40 mph over that distance, which I don't think is possible.

Dave Goob Cook · 09-28-2007, 11:06 AM

I see "excessive braking" as only when there are tire(s) locked up, or vehicle control is compromised.

I run the "low smoke" Moroso fronts myself......

Jason is about dead on with his calculations.
If you want to scrub a tenth, you better have it mostly done before you get to the 1000' mark, and a tight rear brake setup really helps.

I've never had to "hold" more than .08, in that case, I scrubbed the brakes upon the shift to 2nd gear, just enough to hold the tach for a one count, that took .05-.06 off, dumped the rest down at the end between the stripes.
1/8th mile racing, had winning MPH from 84 to 102 that day.

ernie kendall · 09-28-2007, 12:57 PM

I Think Anyone Who Is Found Guilty Of Excessive Braking Should Loose Their Licence For A Year. I Saw The Ceash At Atco In Comp. Not Pretty. Sooner Or Later Someone Is Going To Get Killed. Winning Should Not Be That Important!!!!!!

wsmracing · 09-28-2007, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ernie kendall

I Think Anyone Who Is Found Guilty Of Excessive Braking Should Loose Their Licence For A Year. I Saw The Ceash At Atco In Comp. Not Pretty. Sooner Or Later Someone Is Going To Get Killed. Winning Should Not Be That Important!!!!!!

THANK YOU ERNIE..................!!!!!!!

DaveParker · 09-28-2007, 09:32 PM

I will take the loss instead of braking hard. Winning like Ernie said isn't that important. I couldn't afford to wreck my car. We would never get back out there.

SG1809 · 09-28-2007, 09:42 PM

I agree with Ernie also, It's just not worth it.

Dave Goob Cook · 09-29-2007, 09:48 AM

That is why it's better to just drag the brakes without lifting on the throttle, better control of both the vehicle and how much you are backing into someone, or putting the fender on 'em.

A car under power will still drive straight, even with some front lock-up.....

BIZMANRACING · 09-29-2007, 11:53 AM

I agree with what everyone is saying. It?s not worth it. Someone?s going to get killed; I could never get back into it if I crashed. It?s all-true. But, in that short time, sometime less than 1 sec a lot of bad decisions are made.

Three years ago I went out in the first round against Alan billings at the atco race in September. It was the last division one race of the year. The weekend was a nightmare to tune to. Rain on and off, lots of moisture in the air. I woke up that mooring excited because the weather station said that the air was the same as the last time shot I took which landed me a 10.904. So I didn?t change a thing. I was in the right lane and I shot out of there with a .013 light (found that out later). Everything was going fine. Unfortunally, being the slower car I got to the 990 cone first (atco does do 1000 ft) I looked for Alan but he was way back there. So I started to drag the brakes. If you could of put a microphone in the car with me, you would have heard me saying over and over. ?Come on, come on? but Alan was just so far back.

Then the brain started playing games. Hey, he?s not that much quicker than me (130 mph to my 127) he should be gaining on me. But, he never was. So since I was the fearless hard braker after all I have won rounds at only 92-mph. This was no different. Hard on the brakes I went followed by a blown front tire, which was followed by the second front going out. Its something that will turn you white knuckled on the wheel. There was nothing I could do. Other than just hang on. Luckily both tires went, if not maybe I?m not here to type this, since she just laid down flat while I held on. She didn?t stop until the first turn off at atco. Lucky for those who came after me it didn?t take long to get my car off the track? I lost anyway with an e.t. of 10.895, and I got called to the tower for an *** chewing.

Yea, I agree braking is dangerous. But, if I had to do it again I think I would. I wish what I said was a lie, and I haven?t put myself in that position again. In fact I haven?t been back to a division race since. Only as a fan. I?m putting my car back together and I hope to return next year. I blamed myself due to not being experienced enough to know better. Which now I guess I am, but what scares me is that I will do it again. God I hope I don?t next time maybe it will just take my life.

Carlos Mendes
S/st

Jason Kenny · 09-29-2007, 07:21 PM

With a 1900lb dragster, I have seen data (forget the drivers name) that shows when you dump 26 mph in the right lane of the Super Comp finals at the 2007 Belle Rose Sportsnationals, it's about 9 hundredths.

That's strictly on the top end ... no screwing around before 1100'.

http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCSt...r2007#indextop

View Poll Results: ...DESCRIBE EXCESSIVE BRAKING...
TAPPING THE BRAKE	0	0%
PUMPING THE BRAKE	0	0%
RIDING THE BRAKE	5	7.58%
MASHING THE BRAKE TO SCRUB 10 MPH & A .10 OR 2	62	93.94%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

09-27-2007, 08:04 PM	#1
wsmracing Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NEW JERSEY Posts: 170 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	...excessive Braking Is Interesting.. Just How Far Do You Go To Protect An Index Or Win One More Round..?......is It Worth That Much..?

09-28-2007, 12:01 AM	#2
Jason Oldfield Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 619 Likes: 1 Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts	Re: ...excessive Braking Is Interesting.. Just as a note, if my calculations are correct (and they usually are), scrubbing a tenth would require scrubbing more than 20 mph over a distance of about 130 ft., which is twice the distance from the MPH cone to the finish line. I'm not going to say that I'll never have somebody dump that hard against me, but so far I never have. In most cases people have usually waited until the MPH stripe to dump, which would mean to scrub a tenth, they'd have to lose approximately 40 mph over that distance, which I don't think is possible. __________________ Jason Oldfield S/G & S/St 1838

09-28-2007, 11:06 AM	#3
Dave Goob Cook Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 422 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: ...excessive Braking Is Interesting.. I see "excessive braking" as only when there are tire(s) locked up, or vehicle control is compromised. I run the "low smoke" Moroso fronts myself...... Jason is about dead on with his calculations. If you want to scrub a tenth, you better have it mostly done before you get to the 1000' mark, and a tight rear brake setup really helps. I've never had to "hold" more than .08, in that case, I scrubbed the brakes upon the shift to 2nd gear, just enough to hold the tach for a one count, that took .05-.06 off, dumped the rest down at the end between the stripes. 1/8th mile racing, had winning MPH from 84 to 102 that day.

09-28-2007, 12:57 PM	#4
ernie kendall Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ivyland Posts: 16 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: ...excessive Braking Is Interesting.. I Think Anyone Who Is Found Guilty Of Excessive Braking Should Loose Their Licence For A Year. I Saw The Ceash At Atco In Comp. Not Pretty. Sooner Or Later Someone Is Going To Get Killed. Winning Should Not Be That Important!!!!!!

09-28-2007, 09:32 PM	#6
DaveParker Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Schenectady, NY Posts: 21 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: ...excessive Braking Is Interesting.. I will take the loss instead of braking hard. Winning like Ernie said isn't that important. I couldn't afford to wreck my car. We would never get back out there. __________________ David Parker SST 1610

09-28-2007, 09:42 PM	#7
SG1809 Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Monroeville, NJ Posts: 119 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: ...excessive Braking Is Interesting.. I agree with Ernie also, It's just not worth it.

09-29-2007, 09:48 AM	#8
Dave Goob Cook Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Indy Posts: 422 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: ...excessive Braking Is Interesting.. That is why it's better to just drag the brakes without lifting on the throttle, better control of both the vehicle and how much you are backing into someone, or putting the fender on 'em. A car under power will still drive straight, even with some front lock-up.....

09-29-2007, 11:53 AM	#9
BIZMANRACING Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: east brunswick, new jersey Posts: 62 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: ...excessive Braking Is Interesting.. I agree with what everyone is saying. It?s not worth it. Someone?s going to get killed; I could never get back into it if I crashed. It?s all-true. But, in that short time, sometime less than 1 sec a lot of bad decisions are made. Three years ago I went out in the first round against Alan billings at the atco race in September. It was the last division one race of the year. The weekend was a nightmare to tune to. Rain on and off, lots of moisture in the air. I woke up that mooring excited because the weather station said that the air was the same as the last time shot I took which landed me a 10.904. So I didn?t change a thing. I was in the right lane and I shot out of there with a .013 light (found that out later). Everything was going fine. Unfortunally, being the slower car I got to the 990 cone first (atco does do 1000 ft) I looked for Alan but he was way back there. So I started to drag the brakes. If you could of put a microphone in the car with me, you would have heard me saying over and over. ?Come on, come on? but Alan was just so far back. Then the brain started playing games. Hey, he?s not that much quicker than me (130 mph to my 127) he should be gaining on me. But, he never was. So since I was the fearless hard braker after all I have won rounds at only 92-mph. This was no different. Hard on the brakes I went followed by a blown front tire, which was followed by the second front going out. Its something that will turn you white knuckled on the wheel. There was nothing I could do. Other than just hang on. Luckily both tires went, if not maybe I?m not here to type this, since she just laid down flat while I held on. She didn?t stop until the first turn off at atco. Lucky for those who came after me it didn?t take long to get my car off the track? I lost anyway with an e.t. of 10.895, and I got called to the tower for an *** chewing. Yea, I agree braking is dangerous. But, if I had to do it again I think I would. I wish what I said was a lie, and I haven?t put myself in that position again. In fact I haven?t been back to a division race since. Only as a fan. I?m putting my car back together and I hope to return next year. I blamed myself due to not being experienced enough to know better. Which now I guess I am, but what scares me is that I will do it again. God I hope I don?t next time maybe it will just take my life. Carlos Mendes S/st

09-29-2007, 07:21 PM	#10
Jason Kenny Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kutztown, PA Posts: 108 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: ...excessive Braking Is Interesting.. With a 1900lb dragster, I have seen data (forget the drivers name) that shows when you dump 26 mph in the right lane of the Super Comp finals at the 2007 Belle Rose Sportsnationals, it's about 9 hundredths. That's strictly on the top end ... no screwing around before 1100'. http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCSt...r2007#indextop Last edited by Jason Kenny; 09-29-2007 at 07:30 PM.