fuel pump w/q-jet

Kevin Lang · 01-01-2008, 03:52 AM

Just wanted to find out what 82-86 camaro 305/q-jet stocker guys are running for a fuel pump and regulator setup. Plus fuel line size. Any input on this is appreciated. Thanks!!!

zracer305 · 01-01-2008, 04:03 AM

Take a look at the Race Pumps, no $300.00 to $500.00 electric pump, no running a return line back to the fuel cell, no battery charging between rounds, better fuel control. Just bought one can't wait to try it.

http://www.racepumps.com/index.html

Grant Eldridge · 01-01-2008, 06:05 AM

Kevin,
We've found that the Q-Jet carb requires a far larger fuel system than a similar sized Holley carb, due to the fact that it has only one needle and seat and a single small fuel bowl. You need lots of volume available to the carb, so we've oversized the entire system.
If you're using a stock tank like we are, fabricate a new pickup tube and a return line fitting back into the tank to match the sizing of your new lines, replacing the oem tubing used originally. We use 5/8" aluminum line which is equivalent to AN-10 and run through a high flow inline Magna Fuel filter to a 300 gph Magna Fuel pump, then to a large Aeromotive return style regulator up front. At the time, Magna Fuel did not offer the return style of regulator, although that may now have changed. The return line should be the same size back to the tank. You must remove the bypass fitting from the pump and install the correct style of plug in it's place if you are using a return regulator and return line coming back from the motor. Important note :- you must also provide for a large vent for the tank of appropriate size, I used 1/2" venting here with one coil in the vent line to which I added a small canister filter. We run AN-12 line from the regulator to the carb and make up our own special inlet fitting so the carb has an instant reserve of pressurised fuel available in that oversized line. This system will pump a gallon of fuel in about 15 seconds free flowing. We find the fuel pressure remains constant throughout the run using this system, and the return system is easier on the pump with fuel constantly moving through the lines. I believe the pump also runs cooler, is less likely to aerate the fuel, and probably draws less amperage from your electrical system. It's quieter operating and likely will also last longer before requiring maintenance.
We started out a few years ago with 1/2" lines, Holley blue pump and regulator, then upgraded to a Holley black pump, then to the Magna Fuel pump with a deadhead style Magna Fuel large regulator and kept chasing fuel delivery as a possible problem. Do yourself a big favor, do it once. Spend the time and money once and use all the best stuff you can get first, you'll save money time and frustration in the long run and the system will be troublefree and adequate. I did it all the hard way, maybe my experience with this system can save you from going that way, Just my own opinion though.......smile...

Kevin Lang · 01-01-2008, 10:59 AM

Thanks a bunch zracer and grant !!!! I do have a fuel cell (4 gal.) with twin -8 outlets and was going to go with the holley black pump and reg. with -8 line all the way up to the carb. I thought this would be enough of a system for an 86 camaro 305 for I/SA trim being that the needle and seat can only flow so much. Grant did you see an improvement in ET when switching to this large system. Again I am aiming for I/SA (first stocker for me). Maybe setting the bar too high for myself for a first stocker.... right! But I have bracket raced for 20 years. Time to step up to the big time. Thanks again guys for your help !!!!!! signed 1750 I/SA (got a nice ring to it don't it).

Dave Ribeiro · 01-01-2008, 11:54 AM

Kevin,

Jump in to stock you will love it, yes its a great racing family..This site will help you with any problem you may have... I have to agree with Grant on the fuel pump, I don't know if the Holley Black/Blue is what you want for a stocker with a Q-jet... Nobody is trying to spend more of your money , they are only trying help save you time and money from their experiences..The Holley maybe a good street pump but for racing you want good pump..Malloy,Aeromotive,Magna-
Fuel and B+G pumps are some good names to look at.. Fuel in very important a Q-jet for reason that Grant stated, not a place to fool with... good luck with your project " Stocker "
* When your at the races, look under the cars and see how many Holley pumps you see and that should give you a hint... Dave,

Grant Eldridge · 01-01-2008, 05:15 PM

Kevin,
I can't tell you definitely if we picked up et or mph because we never did that kind of back to back experiment. We had been having problems with a high gear slight miss but not always. We had seen a drop in fuel pressure at the top end on our guage mounted on the cowl with the old system. The kind of problems we were having can be very hard to pin down, and I wanted to be sure we were not just on the edge with our system. Other racers had told me basically what I have told you, so finally I decided to "step up" and put in the good system. If you are just now building the car, the exra cost is not so bad. I had to replace all my stuff with better parts and add the entire return system and plumbing.
Since then I've added an EGT and then an O2 data logger to get more data. Even with this fuel system in high gear you can see that the fuel curve is not steady but goes richer and leaner as you go through high gear, maybe .4 or .5 fluctuation. I've been wondering if there is anything further I can do to get the fuel curve more even. If anyone has an idea, please chime in! You are really battling to get enough fuel through that .140 needle and seat and keep that one small fuel bowl filled. I would not switch back, you need as much fuel volume as possible available to the carb in my opinion. I run E/SA or F/SA so possibly your demand will be a bit less, but why not do it once and make it as good as possible?
To get the AN-12 to attach to the Q-jet carb I took a stock inlet fitting and drilled it out, tapping it to a larger pipe thread. I threaded in a 45 degree brass elbow that I ground down externally to clear the carb body and then was able to use a hydraulic fitting to go male pipe thread to AN-12 male. I enlarged and contoured the internal size of these fittings to ensure no restrictions. You might be able to come up with a more elegant solution, but this will work fine. Here's a link to a photo of what I'm running:-

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...acecar0012.jpg
Good luck with your stocker! It is all about attention to details like these and using nothing but the best parts, It's also a great challenge to try and make the combination work better all the time.....

John Mason · 01-01-2008, 11:08 PM

Follow this link to the best kept secret in ultimate quadrajet fuel systems. Browse the site, then call John and LISTEN to what he tells you. My son Dan's low 9 second big block quadrajet GT/BA has the complete system and it's perfect. 6.5 lbs rock solid pressure start to finish, no dips, no skips all the way to 144 MPH. It isn't cheap but it is the best.
http://www.productengr.com/

zracer305 · 01-06-2008, 06:41 AM

Kevin,
Thought I'd wait and let everyone else respond before I respond again. I too am building a 305 Camaro to run G/SA. It's the big cam higher compression version of the 305. What strikes me funny is that back in the early eighties when SS/GT classes began everyone ran the Holly blue pump with the same carb that we must use and those guys didn't have a problem. Cars were running 10.50s at 130 and not running out of fuel. So, why is fuel delivery such a big issue now days. I've looked under many of the Camaros running in stock today including the FI cars. Most all of the FI cars are running a Automotive pump because the FI cars require the higher volume. There are also a lot of cars running the BG products. But, reading a lot of the posts on this site many racers have had problems with the BG stuff. I suggested the Race Pump because 1) pumps at a higher volume than any electric pump at 450 gph. 2) it was cheaper (bought a remanufactured one off e-Bay under $200.00) 3) you don't have to run a return line back to the cell 4) it's a variable pump meaning that it only pumps enough fuel for the RPM's being used. 5) you don't need a fuel shut off valve at the back of the car because it's a mechanical pump. Just remember "If you always do what they've always done...you'll always be what they always were". Go to some NHRA races in your area and look under the Camaros and Firebirds like you want to build and decide what?s going to work best for you. By the way it was also mentioned in another post that on the BG web site there is an article that talks about fuel delivery and many of us found very helpful.

01-01-2008, 03:52 AM	#1
Kevin Lang Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: southern connecticut Posts: 38 Likes: 5 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	fuel pump w/q-jet Just wanted to find out what 82-86 camaro 305/q-jet stocker guys are running for a fuel pump and regulator setup. Plus fuel line size. Any input on this is appreciated. Thanks!!!

01-01-2008, 04:03 AM	#2
zracer305 Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 108 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: fuel pump w/q-jet Take a look at the Race Pumps, no $300.00 to $500.00 electric pump, no running a return line back to the fuel cell, no battery charging between rounds, better fuel control. Just bought one can't wait to try it. http://www.racepumps.com/index.html

01-01-2008, 06:05 AM	#3
Grant Eldridge Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 124 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: fuel pump w/q-jet Kevin, We've found that the Q-Jet carb requires a far larger fuel system than a similar sized Holley carb, due to the fact that it has only one needle and seat and a single small fuel bowl. You need lots of volume available to the carb, so we've oversized the entire system. If you're using a stock tank like we are, fabricate a new pickup tube and a return line fitting back into the tank to match the sizing of your new lines, replacing the oem tubing used originally. We use 5/8" aluminum line which is equivalent to AN-10 and run through a high flow inline Magna Fuel filter to a 300 gph Magna Fuel pump, then to a large Aeromotive return style regulator up front. At the time, Magna Fuel did not offer the return style of regulator, although that may now have changed. The return line should be the same size back to the tank. You must remove the bypass fitting from the pump and install the correct style of plug in it's place if you are using a return regulator and return line coming back from the motor. Important note :- you must also provide for a large vent for the tank of appropriate size, I used 1/2" venting here with one coil in the vent line to which I added a small canister filter. We run AN-12 line from the regulator to the carb and make up our own special inlet fitting so the carb has an instant reserve of pressurised fuel available in that oversized line. This system will pump a gallon of fuel in about 15 seconds free flowing. We find the fuel pressure remains constant throughout the run using this system, and the return system is easier on the pump with fuel constantly moving through the lines. I believe the pump also runs cooler, is less likely to aerate the fuel, and probably draws less amperage from your electrical system. It's quieter operating and likely will also last longer before requiring maintenance. We started out a few years ago with 1/2" lines, Holley blue pump and regulator, then upgraded to a Holley black pump, then to the Magna Fuel pump with a deadhead style Magna Fuel large regulator and kept chasing fuel delivery as a possible problem. Do yourself a big favor, do it once. Spend the time and money once and use all the best stuff you can get first, you'll save money time and frustration in the long run and the system will be troublefree and adequate. I did it all the hard way, maybe my experience with this system can save you from going that way, Just my own opinion though.......smile...

01-01-2008, 10:59 AM	#4
Kevin Lang Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: southern connecticut Posts: 38 Likes: 5 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: fuel pump w/q-jet Thanks a bunch zracer and grant !!!! I do have a fuel cell (4 gal.) with twin -8 outlets and was going to go with the holley black pump and reg. with -8 line all the way up to the carb. I thought this would be enough of a system for an 86 camaro 305 for I/SA trim being that the needle and seat can only flow so much. Grant did you see an improvement in ET when switching to this large system. Again I am aiming for I/SA (first stocker for me). Maybe setting the bar too high for myself for a first stocker.... right! But I have bracket raced for 20 years. Time to step up to the big time. Thanks again guys for your help !!!!!! signed 1750 I/SA (got a nice ring to it don't it).

01-01-2008, 11:54 AM	#5
Dave Ribeiro VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Williamsburg, Va.---USA Posts: 1,827 Likes: 1,612 Liked 56 Times in 27 Posts	Re: fuel pump w/q-jet Kevin, Jump in to stock you will love it, yes its a great racing family..This site will help you with any problem you may have... I have to agree with Grant on the fuel pump, I don't know if the Holley Black/Blue is what you want for a stocker with a Q-jet... Nobody is trying to spend more of your money , they are only trying help save you time and money from their experiences..The Holley maybe a good street pump but for racing you want good pump..Malloy,Aeromotive,Magna- Fuel and B+G pumps are some good names to look at.. Fuel in very important a Q-jet for reason that Grant stated, not a place to fool with... good luck with your project " Stocker " * When your at the races, look under the cars and see how many Holley pumps you see and that should give you a hint... Dave, __________________ Dave Ribeiro 1033 STK

01-01-2008, 05:15 PM	#6
Grant Eldridge Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 124 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: fuel pump w/q-jet Kevin, I can't tell you definitely if we picked up et or mph because we never did that kind of back to back experiment. We had been having problems with a high gear slight miss but not always. We had seen a drop in fuel pressure at the top end on our guage mounted on the cowl with the old system. The kind of problems we were having can be very hard to pin down, and I wanted to be sure we were not just on the edge with our system. Other racers had told me basically what I have told you, so finally I decided to "step up" and put in the good system. If you are just now building the car, the exra cost is not so bad. I had to replace all my stuff with better parts and add the entire return system and plumbing. Since then I've added an EGT and then an O2 data logger to get more data. Even with this fuel system in high gear you can see that the fuel curve is not steady but goes richer and leaner as you go through high gear, maybe .4 or .5 fluctuation. I've been wondering if there is anything further I can do to get the fuel curve more even. If anyone has an idea, please chime in! You are really battling to get enough fuel through that .140 needle and seat and keep that one small fuel bowl filled. I would not switch back, you need as much fuel volume as possible available to the carb in my opinion. I run E/SA or F/SA so possibly your demand will be a bit less, but why not do it once and make it as good as possible? To get the AN-12 to attach to the Q-jet carb I took a stock inlet fitting and drilled it out, tapping it to a larger pipe thread. I threaded in a 45 degree brass elbow that I ground down externally to clear the carb body and then was able to use a hydraulic fitting to go male pipe thread to AN-12 male. I enlarged and contoured the internal size of these fittings to ensure no restrictions. You might be able to come up with a more elegant solution, but this will work fine. Here's a link to a photo of what I'm running:- http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...acecar0012.jpg Good luck with your stocker! It is all about attention to details like these and using nothing but the best parts, It's also a great challenge to try and make the combination work better all the time.....

01-01-2008, 11:08 PM	#7
John Mason Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 147 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: fuel pump w/q-jet Follow this link to the best kept secret in ultimate quadrajet fuel systems. Browse the site, then call John and LISTEN to what he tells you. My son Dan's low 9 second big block quadrajet GT/BA has the complete system and it's perfect. 6.5 lbs rock solid pressure start to finish, no dips, no skips all the way to 144 MPH. It isn't cheap but it is the best. http://www.productengr.com/ __________________ John Mason 7743 SS

01-06-2008, 06:41 AM	#8
zracer305 Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 108 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: fuel pump w/q-jet Kevin, Thought I'd wait and let everyone else respond before I respond again. I too am building a 305 Camaro to run G/SA. It's the big cam higher compression version of the 305. What strikes me funny is that back in the early eighties when SS/GT classes began everyone ran the Holly blue pump with the same carb that we must use and those guys didn't have a problem. Cars were running 10.50s at 130 and not running out of fuel. So, why is fuel delivery such a big issue now days. I've looked under many of the Camaros running in stock today including the FI cars. Most all of the FI cars are running a Automotive pump because the FI cars require the higher volume. There are also a lot of cars running the BG products. But, reading a lot of the posts on this site many racers have had problems with the BG stuff. I suggested the Race Pump because 1) pumps at a higher volume than any electric pump at 450 gph. 2) it was cheaper (bought a remanufactured one off e-Bay under $200.00) 3) you don't have to run a return line back to the cell 4) it's a variable pump meaning that it only pumps enough fuel for the RPM's being used. 5) you don't need a fuel shut off valve at the back of the car because it's a mechanical pump. Just remember "If you always do what they've always done...you'll always be what they always were". Go to some NHRA races in your area and look under the Camaros and Firebirds like you want to build and decide what?s going to work best for you. By the way it was also mentioned in another post that on the BG web site there is an article that talks about fuel delivery and many of us found very helpful.