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Old 07-04-2011, 12:01 PM   #1
Phillip marvetz
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Default Help with rules, Running out of class....

Hey Guy's,
I can't find anything in the NHRA rule book about this concerning the Summit bracket series.

Sportsman is has an E.T break of 12.00-19.99, So here is the question.

Car A dials 12.00 and runs 11.986
Car B dials 12.10 and runs 12.023

Car A wins the double breakout race, But car B protests because A ran out of class.. The track has never Dq'd a driver for this before. The head of tech says that the .90 classes lose if they breakout so therefore the bracket cars shouldn't be allowed to either.

Anyone have a real answer?
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: Help with rules, Running out of class....

It's possible that the 11.98 car could be DQ'd. I guess it would be up to the track. Cars are not permitted to dial-in quicker than their chassis allows (i.e. a car without a full cage must dial 10.00 or slower. A winning, double-breakout pass of 9.997 should result in a DQ). A Comp car was DQ'd from the event several years ago for running 7.49 during qualifying, in a car that was only certified to 7.50.

I don't have a definate answer. I would say 'final ruling is up to the track', and they could give you a better answer.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:33 PM   #3
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Default Re: Help with rules, Running out of class....

The track manager is going to give it some thought before making final decision. It's not safety issue in this case, A roll bar isn't required until 11.49 now.
This also brings up the question what if you run to slow for your class?
IE A pro car (Pro is 9.00-13.99) Dials 13.98 but dumps the guy in the other lane and runs a 14.01, Now he has ran out of his class . . . Should he be Dq'd? Or made to move to sportsman?

I've also seen car's dialed slower than the 19.99 max for sportsman also.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: Help with rules, Running out of class....

I have had the same question this year about the "et breaks". This is my first year running a full schedule in the sportsman class. Previous I ran in a heads up index series. I have been around ET series racing for years mainly as a crew cheif. Also I have raced some sportsman events on a hit and miss fashion. My other concern is about cars in the sportsman class running way faster in time trials than the 12.0 et break. Our track this year has had some cars run anywhere from 11.45-11.80's in time trials. I say do like the index series did. If you run faster than the index in either qualifiying session, you had to buy back in. $20 each time. Maybe this would keep some of the "sandbaggers" out of the sportsman class and go run Pro.
If you can run mid to low elevens, you dont need to be in the sportsman class. Period. Also, what is everyones opinion on cars with transbrakes running in sportsman? My division clearly states "no transbrakes allowed", but yet the tracks allow them based on the "gentlemans agreement" Oh, as long as you dont use it, its ok. I say, if they are in sportsman, no transbrake button or switch should be in the car period! What do others think about this?
Also, I fully agree with the first post. If you run faster than the ET break, a.k.a index, then your out. The double break out thing is a joke!
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: Help with rules, Running out of class....

Phil, the rule at MRP has always been that you cannot dail outside the class, but you can run an et outside the class if your car is legal to do so. I saw the race in question, and it was good. I cannot believe there was a protest of that round. If the sportsman cut off is 12.00 and you dailed it, you can run 11.98 if your car has the safety equipment to run that et. It is a bogus protest. Also, the .90 classes can win a double breakout race and go .899 and not get DQ'd. However, go over 135 without cert and gear and you should be out.

nopwradders:
The double breakout rule is necessary, someone has to win. You can't eliminate both competitors. The transbrake button or solenoid should not be in the car. It is like having a delay box and promissing not to use it. If they have a pro tree brake and need the button for reverse, then they should not be able to run the class. The sandbaggers are everywhere, cut a better light, dail under and break them out!


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Last edited by Dave Jung; 07-05-2011 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:37 AM   #6
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Default Re: Help with rules, Running out of class....

Dave, your correct. I'm used to the heads up class I was running in. If either car or both go faster than the index, both loose. Last year we actually didnt have a winner in one class. All four cars in the semi's broke out. It does make it so you have to know your car.
What is everyone's opinion of cars running faster, and I mean like 11.5's or 6's in time trials in sportsman? Should this be allowed or should something like a "buy back" be instated? This would either make more money for the tracks and or raise payouts, or increase the Pro class car count.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Help with rules, Running out of class....

My opinion on cars running that fast in time trails is that it is not smart. Do they really want everyone to know how much they are holding? It is a show off thing. It is happening at alot of tracks. I am all for them running in Pro, I am a Pro racer and I am constantly telling them to step up. They are allowed to do what they want as long as it is within the rules. Personally, I would set my car up to run 12.00 or 12.10 and then it is at least dailable in eliminations. I do not think the guys running that far under 12.00 are at an advantage.
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Help with rules, Running out of class....

I think NHRA really needs to clearify the rules better, and ENFORCE them. Why not make all divisions have the same rules? Lets keep sportsman a basic class. No E, no trans brakes and no trans brake switch or button in car, no delay boxes, no throttle stops, mufflers OR open headers, slicks or DOT tires, OEM computers only and OEM computers cant be modified or allow all the tracks to have some way to read what data has been programmed into the stock computers. Also, stock suspension, no wheel tubs, no mini tubs. Just a stock vehicle. You can lighten all you want. And anything that is a bolt in is allowed.
Or is the NHRA wanting to just have two ET classes? This is the rumor I have been hearing.
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:45 PM   #9
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Default Re: Help with rules, Running out of class....

"[QUOTE=Dave Jung;267502]Phil, the rule at MRP has always been that you cannot dail outside the class, but you can run an et outside the class if your car is legal to do so. I saw the race in question, and it was good. I cannot believe there was a protest of that round. If the sportsman cut off is 12.00 and you dailed it, you can run 11.98 if your car has the safety equipment to run that et. It is a bogus protest."

The worst part of it is that the other racer didn't protest it, He was stopped by the head tech guy on his way back to his pit and told he should go to the track manager and protest it. He didn't protest it but did ask what the policy was, The track manager couldn't find anything in the rule book and then came to me and told me there was a problem before checking with the tech guy that had started it all. My response was I don't think so,It's not in the rule book and it's never been a problem before so it shouldn't be now. After some time was spent looking for a rule voilation and not finding one it was decided to let me finish the race. Rather unsettling going into the semis. I've had several conversation with this tech person before about this and told him he was mistaken everytime. Section 2 page 6 refers to breakouts at Nation and Divisional events for class cars and he thinks that applies to the Summit E.T bracket series also. No amount of dialog can change his mind even though it's right there in black and white in front of him.

This really only affects the sportsman cars, I dont see to many 8 second cars trying to run pro or 6 second cars trying to run super pro.
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Old 07-05-2011, 11:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: Help with rules, Running out of class....

ok sorry to the other racer. I assumed it was a protest. congrats on the win even tho you were distracted by the bs. you were right.
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