SS Modified

[Mike Mans]

I guess I really don't see the reason to change the current ruling on it. If you made the rule that it had to be an Untouched spec head, now you're back to requiring tear downs to illustrate that the head has not been altered. This idea doesn't even fit in the realm of Super Stock as all heads can at least be ported and polished. Besides the fact that I'm assuming you mean a Brodix Aluminum head, which would create a distinct disadvantage to all of the competitors that have already made the investment in a SS/CS specific combination. Seems like a fairly one-sided view to leave everyone else's investment out to dry.

Just a few years ago (2011) there were 3 of us SS/CS guys that finished in the Top 10 nationally and 2 of those folks are still actively competitive with these combos. In my opinion this is a fairly well populated class that already has arguably one of the lowest cost of entry of all the modified categories. I just saw that Tim Sloan completed a new SS/CS combination with a cast intake manifold and right out of the box was on par to run -.70 or so!

Overall it's a great class that anyone looking for a way to run modified without spending big bucks on Comp type motors can compete. The rules are slightly unique to CS alone, but I think the classes popularity and competitiveness already show that it's healthy and should be left as-is for the time being.

Just my thoughts.

Mike

[randy wilson]

Originally Posted by Mike Mans

I guess I really don't see the reason to change the current ruling on it. If you made the rule that it had to be an Untouched spec head, now you're back to requiring tear downs to illustrate that the head has not been altered. This idea doesn't even fit in the realm of Super Stock as all heads can at least be ported and polished. Besides the fact that I'm assuming you mean a Brodix Aluminum head, which would create a distinct disadvantage to all of the competitors that have already made the investment in a SS/CS specific combination. Seems like a fairly one-sided view to leave everyone else's investment out to dry.

Just a few years ago (2011) there were 3 of us SS/CS guys that finished in the Top 10 nationally and 2 of those folks are still actively competitive with these combos. In my opinion this is a fairly well populated class that already has arguably one of the lowest cost of entry of all the modified categories. I just saw that Tim Sloan completed a new SS/CS combination with a cast intake manifold and right out of the box was on par to run -.70 or so!

Overall it's a great class that anyone looking for a way to run modified without spending big bucks on Comp type motors can compete. The rules are slightly unique to CS alone, but I think the classes popularity and competitiveness already show that it's healthy and should be left as-is for the time being.

Just my thoughts.

Mike

I actually agree with you on this point, because of the money invested in the parts and work it takes to run that class. My opinion is it wouldn't hurt to add a class to the modified stock class that does specify a head, but I really don't have a lot of say in this, as I quit running SS/CS a few years back. We weren't the hitters you, Bogner, and Perino were, and are, but we did run some high 60's, low 70's in the quarter at a best of 142,86. And I heartily agree that changing cylinder heads in midstream sucks. But that being said, I started in 86, I believe with Linden Bognard's 67 Camaro with 461X heads, updated to the tune of $4,000 to the now legal 292's, then spent $8,000 at John Haskels for each set of bow tie phase 1 and 2, then was outdated again by the bow tie vortec. It got rather expensive. And I think you guys who do this should be commended for your performance levels, I just know more people would jump in under different circumstances, and a class that does not step on anyone's toes.

[Mike Mans]

We can completely understand where you are coming from on the cost to try and be fast. Obviously we put forth a very aggressive effort to be fast, and no matter what class or category you compete in - it costs time and money to try and be at the top of any of them. But, that being said you guys (Randy Wilson) had a good car and combo to go out and run -.60-70 and be competitive on race day!

I don't really have a preference on whether a NEW class should be added or not with a spec type head. It doesn't make a ton of sense to me, but at the end of the day it doesn't hurt anyone either. We are both on the same page that it doesn't seem right to make a big rule shift to a class that already has a good number of competitors - and many of them are putting a lot of time and money into their combinations.

At the end of the day, Super Stock is not a budget class if you have intentions of being fast. Plain and simple. Traditional Super Stock, GT and Modified all have areas that big money will be spent in an effort to be the leader. But I bet you can count on one hand the number of times the #1 qualifiers won races this year. Proving once again you don't have to be fast to do what we all come out for every week.

Mike

[randy wilson]

Thank you Mike. We also ran those numbers with a clutch assisted 4 speed, as in we actually clutched every gear. Really. And a McCleod soft loc single disc total loc up from start to finish. We weren't real bright in the clutc department. We also ran 6.16 1.8th in 3,300 foot air with a phase 1 iron bow tie's. It was, and is a fun class. We runner upped to Randall Beningfield at the Holley nationals, and got beat by .02. We were proud of that.

[randy wilson]

Also with a cast bow tie intake manifold. Never had a sheet metal manifold with our SS/CS stuff.

[SSDiv6]

I believe there is still a GM SS/CS engine combination that has not been tried.
I am talking of the 1999-2004 LQ4 LS Chevy engine.

It has a cast iron block that will sustain 1500+ HP and cast iron heads with lots of material for porting.

The cylinder heads are of a 15 degree design with an intake port volume of 210cc and the exhaust port volume of 75cc as cast. They have lots of material for big valves. The 71 cc chamber has meat for machining it down.

Was told by NHRA since they are OEM cylinder heads, they are legal for the class.

[randy wilson]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

I believe there is still a GM SS/CS engine combination that has not been tried.
I am talking of the 1999-2004 LQ4 LS Chevy engine.

It has a cast iron block that will sustain 1500+ HP and cast iron heads with lots of material for porting.

The cylinder heads are of a 15 degree design with an intake port volume of 210cc and the exhaust port volume of 75cc as cast. They have lots of material for big valves. The 71 cc chamber has meat for machining it down.

Was told by NHRA since they are OEM cylinder heads, they are legal for the class.

That done properly would have to be a killer deal. Is the LS motors a wedge?

[Mike Mans]

If I was starting from scratch and looking to get into SS/CS - I would seriously look into that combination. The LS platform is still a wedge head with a much more favorable valve angle, and is laid out in a configuration like a Ford head where the runners for each cylinder are the same layout.

It would be a shame to put a carburetor on an LS platform to run modified! Maybe someday we will be able to run fuel injection in modified...

Mike

[Ed Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Mike, What if NHRA made untouched Brodix Spec heads only head to run in CS?

This would be closest to lower cost entry class for SS.

I help Ashton Hudson at the track when I can with his SS/CS car. I can tell you there is nothing cheap about it. In fact he is doing a new engine now and he told me over 30,000 total carb to pan.

[randy wilson]

Originally Posted by deuces wild

I help Ashton Hudson at the track when I can with his SS/CS car. I can tell you there is nothing cheap about it. In fact he is doing a new engine now and he told me over 30,000 total carb to pan.

And if it's real competitive, that's cheap. If you were to break it down piece by piece, a killer combo comes to a bit more then that. We spent, as I stated $8,000 a pair for bow tie heads with no springs, retainers, or rockers. Add anew sheet metal intake for $1,800, a short deck bow tie block with all the bells, and whistles, around $8,000, diamond Pistons done right, $2,000, crank, $3,500, steel rods, $4,000, (and that's being generous) rings, $1,400, cam, $800, lifters, $1,000, oil pan, $1,000, external pump, $800, star vac system, $1,400, valve covers, $200, push rods, $400,springs, and retainers, $900, machine work, assembly, and dyno, $7,000, and Jessel rockers for $1,500, carburetor, $2,000, spacer, $150, not cheap but very challenging. That's well over $40,000.