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Old 07-31-2012, 07:47 PM   #11
erkme73
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Default Re: Onan info

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Originally Posted by Rich Biebel View Post
I can help you or anyone that has Onan issues. I have been working on them and lots of other electrical equipment and machines for many years. I kill time amusing myself reading posts on here during the day or at lunch.....some very entertaining stuff usually in the S/SS area......
Hi Rich - sorry to revive a two-year old thread. Hopefully you're still monitoring for new posts.

I don't want to hijack, but I didn't think starting a new thread, on a very similar issue, for my first post is justified.

I have the same generator (7kw version) that uses the same 300-5374 ECU. It shuts down on its own. It's completely random. Sometimes it'll run for hours without a hick up. Other times, it'll run for 5 minutes then shut down. What is odd is that the shut down is sudden and abrupt. No sputtering, no bogging. It's as though someone hit the stop button.

I've had issues a few years ago with a fuel line that had gotten chewed by rodents. Also had a problem with a rocker arm snapping due to a defect in the cylinder head design. And in those cases, the genny threw an error code.

However, when it shuts down itself, it doesn't blink. When I recall the last error code (clicking the prime button 3 times within 3 seconds), the error reported is from any previous experimenting.

For example, if I ground out the oil transducer line, I'll get error 2 (low oil pressure). If I then let the genny run (with transducer connected) for however long it takes for an auto shut down, when I recall the code, it'll still be 2.

When I run it again, and pull the power to the fuel pump, after it stalls out, I get a 36. If I then restart (with fuel pump back in operation), and it shuts off on it's own, the recalled error code is still 36.

In other words, the auto shut down DEFINITIVELY does NOT register an error code. Unless there is some safety/auto shut down sequence that is triggered/completed which does not generate an error code, my assumption is that I have a bad control board that is randomly telling the system that I hit the STOP button - or I have a short in my cabling that makes it think I hit stop.

To eliminate the latter, I disconnected the remote cable that runs from the dash to the genny - and fired it up. No dice. After about 3 hours of run time, it abruptly shut down again - no error.

I'm getting ready to drop the genny out of it's spot (no easy task on a Damon Intruder) to get access to the wiring. Perhaps there is an internal control cable that is chaffing or melting and grounding out. Or, worst case, I'll have access to the control board(s) to replace it/them.

My primary concern with the genny shutting down randomly is the resulting lack of A/C. In FL, in the summer, with unattended dogs, it can lead to disaster.

Any other ideas?

ETA: The genny is in a 2002 motor home, and has about 600 hours on it. When it runs, it runs like a top. Perfect in every sense - even under full load of both A/Cs. Not a single hick up.

Last edited by erkme73; 07-31-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:57 AM   #12
Rich Biebel
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Default Re: Onan info

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Originally Posted by erkme73 View Post
Hi Rich - sorry to revive a two-year old thread. Hopefully you're still monitoring for new posts.

I don't want to hijack, but I didn't think starting a new thread, on a very similar issue, for my first post is justified.

I have the same generator (7kw version) that uses the same 300-5374 ECU. It shuts down on its own. It's completely random. Sometimes it'll run for hours without a hick up. Other times, it'll run for 5 minutes then shut down. What is odd is that the shut down is sudden and abrupt. No sputtering, no bogging. It's as though someone hit the stop button.

I've had issues a few years ago with a fuel line that had gotten chewed by rodents. Also had a problem with a rocker arm snapping due to a defect in the cylinder head design. And in those cases, the genny threw an error code.

However, when it shuts down itself, it doesn't blink. When I recall the last error code (clicking the prime button 3 times within 3 seconds), the error reported is from any previous experimenting.

For example, if I ground out the oil transducer line, I'll get error 2 (low oil pressure). If I then let the genny run (with transducer connected) for however long it takes for an auto shut down, when I recall the code, it'll still be 2.

When I run it again, and pull the power to the fuel pump, after it stalls out, I get a 36. If I then restart (with fuel pump back in operation), and it shuts off on it's own, the recalled error code is still 36.

In other words, the auto shut down DEFINITIVELY does NOT register an error code. Unless there is some safety/auto shut down sequence that is triggered/completed which does not generate an error code, my assumption is that I have a bad control board that is randomly telling the system that I hit the STOP button - or I have a short in my cabling that makes it think I hit stop.

To eliminate the latter, I disconnected the remote cable that runs from the dash to the genny - and fired it up. No dice. After about 3 hours of run time, it abruptly shut down again - no error.

I'm getting ready to drop the genny out of it's spot (no easy task on a Damon Intruder) to get access to the wiring. Perhaps there is an internal control cable that is chaffing or melting and grounding out. Or, worst case, I'll have access to the control board(s) to replace it/them.

My primary concern with the genny shutting down randomly is the resulting lack of A/C. In FL, in the summer, with unattended dogs, it can lead to disaster.

Any other ideas?

ETA: The genny is in a 2002 motor home, and has about 600 hours on it. When it runs, it runs like a top. Perfect in every sense - even under full load of both A/Cs. Not a single hick up.



Momentary loss of battery power could be your issue. Check and make sure your battery connections are good and solid. Especially the ground......

I have found the connection pins at the Controller to be a MAJOR source of intermittant shutdowns.......One pin in particular.....The one that supplies the fuel pump and the carb fuel solinoid(same circuit).......The EFI units are worse as the pumps draw more amperage. The pin heats up.....melts the plastic around it and soon the connection deteriorates........and the hotter the weather the worse it gets. These units run hot as it is and hotter air temps obvioulsy make them run even hotter......

I unlatch the connector and examine the pins. The connector can be taken apart somewhat and I use a needle file and or some small drills to clean the female pin the best I can. I also use clear dielectric grease when I reinstall the connector.

This is a very common shutdown issue but usually sets a fault code.

It is odd that you have no fault code when it shutsdown......Your controller will probably need replacing.

I can change them without removing the unit.....in about 10 minutes....It is very easy to do.......That controller is $450 retail....
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:03 AM   #13
Jeff Niceswanger
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Default Re: Onan info

Hi Rich,
A little info would be appreciated. We are just about to take our unit to the dealer but if there is something we could easily look at before we throw in the towel it would help. We have a 4000 Onan micro in a 2004 31 foot Four Winds( Serial #H020405714 Model 4KYFA26100K Spec K with 1500 Hrs.) and @ Columbus points race the starter drive busted in half. We dropped the unit out of motor home,ran to the Columbus Cummins dealer picked one up and changed it .Many busted pieces were throughout the shroud,so we took it all apart ,cleaned it all out, and re-installed everything. It took right off, and ran that whole day,but 24 hours later(next morning) it fails to start and sets a code 14(Over Frequency). It will run as long as you hold in the Start Button,and will run when its stone cold for about 30 seconds before it powers down. During this 30 second time-frame it has no measurable AC Output. I checked pins 1 and 10 and had 24 ohms so I thought the brushes were OK. Thinking it was a controller, we bought one ( #327-1413) and it does the same thing.I don't have a frequency meter, and I don't really want a problem in the future burning up appliances or such.I have recently been noticing my output meter on my 16 volt battery charger " wagging"). I never noticed that before and actually bought a new charger as I thought this one was getting ready to crap out.The new charger doesn't wag, so I just thought it was indeed the charger.Maybe its just more forgiving...BUT, I'm wondering if its related. Ideas?
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: Onan info

I have the same generator that had the exact same problem. A buddy of mine who works on Onans in the marine industry and has been to Onan training, told me this. Get a meter and check the Hz frequency at the outlet. It should be 63 Hz with no load 60 Hz with a load. If the generator goes up over 63 Hz it will shut itself off. I just had to adjust the throttle to get it into that range. Haven't had any trouble since. It's worth a try and won't cost anything.

Craig Schultz
S/ST 5909
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:05 PM   #15
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Default Re: Onan info

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I have the same generator that had the exact same problem. A buddy of mine who works on Onans in the marine industry and has been to Onan training, told me this. Get a meter and check the Hz frequency at the outlet. It should be 63 Hz with no load 60 Hz with a load. If the generator goes up over 63 Hz it will shut itself off. I just had to adjust the throttle to get it into that range. Haven't had any trouble since. It's worth a try and won't cost anything.

Craig Schultz
S/ST 5909
That was my problem the whole time. An easy fix..............
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:14 PM   #16
Jeff Niceswanger
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Thanks.....Will try this. Will let you know the verdict...Jeff
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:51 PM   #17
erkme73
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Default Re: Onan info

Quote:
Originally Posted by schultz View Post
I have the same generator that had the exact same problem. A buddy of mine who works on Onans in the marine industry and has been to Onan training, told me this. Get a meter and check the Hz frequency at the outlet. It should be 63 Hz with no load 60 Hz with a load. If the generator goes up over 63 Hz it will shut itself off. I just had to adjust the throttle to get it into that range. Haven't had any trouble since. It's worth a try and won't cost anything.

Craig Schultz
S/ST 5909
Shultz, when yours shut down, did it generate a fault code?
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Old 08-08-2012, 06:53 PM   #18
Rich Biebel
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Default Re: Onan info

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Niceswanger View Post
Hi Rich,
A little info would be appreciated. We are just about to take our unit to the dealer but if there is something we could easily look at before we throw in the towel it would help. We have a 4000 Onan micro in a 2004 31 foot Four Winds( Serial #H020405714 Model 4KYFA26100K Spec K with 1500 Hrs.) and @ Columbus points race the starter drive busted in half. We dropped the unit out of motor home,ran to the Columbus Cummins dealer picked one up and changed it .Many busted pieces were throughout the shroud,so we took it all apart ,cleaned it all out, and re-installed everything. It took right off, and ran that whole day,but 24 hours later(next morning) it fails to start and sets a code 14(Over Frequency). It will run as long as you hold in the Start Button,and will run when its stone cold for about 30 seconds before it powers down. During this 30 second time-frame it has no measurable AC Output. I checked pins 1 and 10 and had 24 ohms so I thought the brushes were OK. Thinking it was a controller, we bought one ( #327-1413) and it does the same thing.I don't have a frequency meter, and I don't really want a problem in the future burning up appliances or such.I have recently been noticing my output meter on my 16 volt battery charger " wagging"). I never noticed that before and actually bought a new charger as I thought this one was getting ready to crap out.The new charger doesn't wag, so I just thought it was indeed the charger.Maybe its just more forgiving...BUT, I'm wondering if its related. Ideas?
Jeff you did a good job describing your problems and what you did to try and diagnose it was spot on. If you have a good Ohm reading across those 2 pins that is very important info. It confirms the brushes and the rotor are good. You tried a Controller and had no luck. When the starter drive broke.....not uncommon... a piece may have somehow gotten inside the rotor/stator area. If the stator was damaged......well that would explain why you have no AC output and a shutdown. First thing is to do as was suggested and try to read the HZ or frequency when it starts and you can hold the button down to try and help you get this reading. Unfortunately if it has NO AC outout you may or may not see a frequency that makes sense....They will shut down if they overspeed and the controller looks at the frequency since it is directly coupled to the engine. 3600 rpm = 60 HZ...62-62.5 is what it should be with no load applied....

I would be OHM testing the stator. Since you knew what the rotor Ohm readings should be.....you must have a Service Manual......If you do read how to test the stator windings.....You can do this right thru the plug in connector. May show you a problem.....May not....

The stator has the coils or windings that are wound inside the outer housing of the generator....Stator as in stationary.....Rotor as in rotating....

If the stator has an open or shorted coil....well that is your problem.

I have done just about everything you can think of on a 4KY...and changing a stator is not that unusual....

They can be very tough to diagnose.....and often are.....
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:37 PM   #19
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Thanks Rich
What has me puzzled is the fact it ran for one complete evening before it quit. But, you know machinery,its confusing .We are camping(wife/dogs are in a cabin,not the motor home) right now,with no internet service or phone. The main office of this place has Wi-fi, so I came up here a couple times now to check in with " the rest of the world". When we get back,I'll get back on this.., as this thing HAS to be fixed by Indy............'ll be in touch
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Old 08-10-2012, 09:28 PM   #20
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I am pretty sure I found it. One of the brushes was shot and not hitting the rotor all the way around .There was a spot about an inch long where it appeared to have not been hitting for a while. I took a scribe and pushed the brush up into the holder a little bit and it just stayed there,not returning. Rich, when I checked wires # 1 and 10 and got that 24 ohms, I made the mistake of not rotating the unit 360 degrees to be sure it was hitting everywhere. Amateurs mistake....I rechecked it, and it came and went severely. Onan in Columbus has the brushes and springs in stock, and We will pick them up and get this thing back together tomorrow, Thanks for all the help guys
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