Bracket Racing vs Class Racing

[Todd Hoven]

Michael, somebody asked about why guys aren’t taking their stockers and running for the big money races. I was giving reasons for why some don’t.

Your cars or performance didn’t offend me. I should have stated that your car was built to do both. Leaning more toward the bracket side. It for the bracket side of the eliminator. Not a car to win class. At least against NHRA cars at NHRA races. Do you take your Turismo to high dollar foot brake races? I doubt it. And if you did or do you are not beating the pros that win the money at your races.

I’m not better than anybody by far who bracket races. I don’t feel elite in the slightest. I don’t have the car or the skill to compete in your type of races. I’ve built the 2 class cars completely that I’ve owned and won races and class with. In NHRA class racing the guy who can build his own car and makes it the best he can with time and money can have an advantage over the guy who spends minimal money and effort to show up to the races with his. Through heads up, qualifying, car quality and so on.

A bracket car is built with a different purpose and is unique with the parts and makeup of the car. At least for every day in and out racing of its type. The people that do it are no less drag racers then anybody else. Just different then what the people mostly compete in on this site.

I didn’t belittle anyone. I’m sorry if your offended. I have nothing but respect for your driving and accomplishments.

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

So don't bracket race a 396 or 426.



How exactly is the Dart a "bracket car" and any less of a Class car than any other? A car either fits a class or it doesn't. The Dart was a Class car from the day I first laid eyes on it. It's got a John Irving motor in it for G/SA. Is John Irving's fleet just a bunch of "bracket cars that fit a class or 2"?

The Volare was a Class car when I bought it, and it had continued to be a Class car right up until I broke the crank last summer, and I decided to make it a full-time bracket car. The Turismo was built as a Stocker from day one. Just because I choose to bracket race Class cars does not make them any less of a Class car. I've set national records, won class, and even been #1 Qualifier with my car(s). I'm sorry if their consistency, driveability, low maintenance, and success offends you.



Funny, no one asked me where I qualified or where I ranked against other G/SA cars on Nitro Joe's list before they handed me the Wally. I'm sorry that it's not "remotely fast" and not a part of "max effort" **** swinging contest that I would never have the desire or finances to "compete" in.

If you don't want to bracket race a class car, don't. Nobody's twisting your arm. It's some pretty offensive elitist BS to belittle others' cars that do choose to use them and enjoy them, though.

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

Michael, somebody asked about why guys aren’t taking their stockers and running for the big money races. I was giving reasons for why some don’t.

Your cars or performance didn’t offend me.

OK, thanks for clarifying.

I should have stated that your car was built to do both. Leaning more toward the bracket side. It for the bracket side of the eliminator. Not a car to win class. At least against NHRA cars at NHRA races.

My cars were built for as much as they could do within my budget. How is this in any way relevant to anything? I'm not rich, never have been, never will be. I have no interest in going massively into debt to "maybe" get into the same zip code as people I can never outspend in order to get another Wally while not making the car any more competitive in the other 99% of racing that I do, just to feel accepted by a handful of people on a message board that really don't care anyway. If people have the wherewithal, and choose to spend their time and money in that way, and that's what makes them happy, that's great! More power to them.

Do you take your Turismo to high dollar foot brake races? I doubt it. And if you did or do you are not beating the pros that win the money at your races.

2010 Footbrake Champions Showdown winner


2010 Footbrake Nationals


2011 Farmington Race of Champions winner


Yeah, probably never footbraked a 4-cyl FWD Stocker against delay box cars at the K&N Spring Fling at Bristol (and tree'd all but two in eliminations all week... one I was red, and the other one had me .011 to .013), either...

I don’t feel elite in the slightest. I don’t have the car or the skill to compete in your type of races. I’ve built the 2 class cars completely that I’ve owned and won races and class with. In NHRA class racing the guy who can build his own car and makes it the best he can with time and money can have an advantage over the guy who spends minimal money and effort to show up to the races with his. Through heads up, qualifying, car quality and so on.

I'm quite familiar with Class Racing. This is exactly what I've done, and I've done it for 20 years. (Oh, $#!&, I'm old! When did that happen?!)

[Todd Hoven]

You interjected yourself into the conversation about your class car that bracket race. Then when I point out the differences between the cars that aren’t built for that type of racing you promote and participate, you get offended and start talking about money spent and dic swinging contests.

You don’t care about what people think about you on this board, but you always post about your accomplishments and starting line prowess. Sounds like your trying to prove something to someone.

I give you all the credit in the world for winning in that Turismo. Nobody can take that away from you.

Originally Posted by Michael Beard;

My cars were built for as much as they could do within my budget. How is this in any way relevant to anything? I'm not rich, never have been, never will be. I have no interest in going massively into debt to "maybe" get into the same zip code as people I can never outspend in order to get another Wally while not making the car any more competitive in the other 99% of racing that I do, just to feel accepted by a handful of people on a message board that really don't care anyway. If people have the wherewithal, and choose to spend their time and money in that way, and that's what makes them happy, that's great! More power to them.



[IMG

http://www.staginglight.com/photos/farm_win10.jpg[/IMG]
2010 Footbrake Champions Showdown winner


2010 Footbrake Nationals


2011 Farmington Race of Champions winner


Yeah, probably never footbraked a 4-cyl FWD Stocker against delay box cars at the K&N Spring Fling at Bristol (and tree'd all but two in eliminations all week... one I was red, and the other one had me .011 to .013), either...



I'm quite familiar with Class Racing. This is exactly what I've done, and I've done it for 20 years. (Oh, $#!&, I'm old! When did that happen?!)

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

You interjected yourself into the conversation about your class car that bracket race.

The title of the thread is "Bracket Racing vs Class Racing".

Then when I point out the differences between the cars that aren’t built for that type of racing you promote and participate, you get offended

Yes, I absolutely did find it offensive when you chose to belittle class cars that people choose to bracket race as just "bracket cars that fit a class or 2".

and start talking about money spent and dic swinging contests.

QUOTE: "Nothing max effort or Remotely fast against NHRA cars."

You don’t care about what people think about you on this board, but you always post about your accomplishments and starting line prowess. Sounds like your trying to prove something to someone.

QUOTE: "Do you take your Turismo to high dollar foot brake races? I doubt it. And if you did or do you are not beating the pros that win the money at your races."

So throw a baseless jab out there that you don't even have any knowledge of, and the same thing when you claim that my cars are just "bracket cars", and I set the record straight on performance of the vehicles, and then you blame the other person for "trying to prove something" for simply setting the record straight? Wow. That's a brilliant win-win for you. Congratulations.

[Todd Hoven]

You put a picture of your car as an example. Those weren’t the cars I was talking about including my own not being an example. I stated my views on why or why not.

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

The title of the thread is "Bracket Racing vs Class Racing".

What do you care? Now that IHRA class is defunct your kinda in limbo.
You converted your car into a full time bracket car. So you have no dog in the fight.


Yes, I absolutely did find it offensive when you chose to belittle class cars that people choose to bracket race as just "bracket cars that fit a class or 2".

Just how I see it. I don’t judge you or anybody as a person on your car status or drag racing results. Just your car.

QUOTE: "Nothing max effort or Remotely fast against NHRA cars."


The Turismo has been planted in weeds for a pretty long time, I see it every time I go to Billy’s. It’s not an active car. Just because you raced it years ago at a race doesn’t mean your racing it.

Your self promoting has been going on long before this thread. Everybody knows how good you are no matter if they have seen you race or not.

QUOTE: "Do you take your Turismo to high dollar foot brake races? I doubt it. And if you did or do you are not beating the pros that win the money at your races."

So throw a baseless jab out there that you don't even have any knowledge of, and the same thing when you claim that my cars are just "bracket cars", and I set the record straight on performance of the vehicles, and then you blame the other person for "trying to prove something" for simply setting the record straight? Wow. That's a brilliant win-win for you. Congratulations.

It really doesn’t matter at this point. Anybody that wants to race their class car should. Bracket racing is a wonderful venue and enjoyable for everyone.

[goinbroke2]

Sheesh, thought I clicked on yellow bullet for a second there....

To sum up both points of view then, how about we say "in general";

A bracket car is over tired and under powered, built to make as many consistent passes as affordable as possible (for the ROI)

A class car is maxed out in every effort to get the utmost in performance from a particular combination.

One who chooses to do both with a class car does so knowing that the car they built to race class (if indeed a max effort) will have less ROI than a cheaper "strictly brackets" type car.

I too love seeing class cars clean up at the big bracket bashes, Lol!

[Billy Nees]

Hey "Boys"! this is getting to sound like the 3 bears. This is too hot and this is too cold and neither one is just right.
Well, Daddy Bear is home so both of you calm down and go to your rooms!
Some Racers spend too much money to go Class Racing!
Some Racers spend too much money to go Bracket Racing!
Neither one of you should give a crap about how other people spend their money! It's their money!!!
You're both the greatest thing since sliced bread! And IF you are, then I'm the bread slicer!
In my lifetime, I have, on occasion, made more money Bracket Racing AND Class Racing then I have working for a living. I will chock that up to being a lucky man in the right place at the right time!
I would NOT advise any sane individual to do ANY kind of Drag Racing if that individual is looking to make a profit!
The END! Done!

[goinbroke2]

Sounds like a new car name Billy,

“The Bread Slicer”

Lol!

[fastlane]

Help me out here to understand the difference, I have been racing my whole life and been around the drags for 55 years. I mostly raced ET and super gas. Thy last time I raced in a stock class was 1966 in a new Nova L79 in A/stock. The way I understand the difference is there is very little difference please correct me where I am wrong. In stock you use how much below your index to set your qualifying position in the brackets you generally use your RT for position. In both you pick your dial in, it needs to be a number below your index or in ET a number below the minimum for Pro or super/pro. In either you can breakout. It is a handicap start based on each racers dial in. In stock if you race a car in the same class it becomes heads up in ET if you race someone with the same dial it is also heads up but no breakout. I understand the difference in builds, one is tightly controlled by rules one is run what you brung. I am planning on running this season in FS/A or FS/AA in a new Copo 350 supercharged which is why I have been reading all I can and I still see very little difference. I must be missing something please set me straight. What are the clear difference in the two that I didn't mention.

[Terry Knott]

I couldn't afford to build a "On the edge,replace the rings/valve springs every 80 passes stocker motor" The way Michael drives I would be replacing the engine every 6 weeks. I(we) have been quite happy with our low buck stocker/bracket motor. And our ROI has never suffered because of our decision. If you zoom in on Michaels NHRA Sportsnational winner circle pic you can see the blazing fast dial of 11.55.
I know people NEVER want to hear this,but Class racing is a bracket race UNTIL you have a heads up run.