SS Modified - Page 5

Jim Hawkins · 10-26-2015, 10:39 PM

I ran SS/CS from 1991 till 1999. I chose this class as a modified class without having to have the newest cyl. head every couple years. This is still a great class and can be run on a budget IF you are happy with .30-.40 under. I ran a best of 9.77 back then in my dinosaur 67 camaro. Phase 1 bowties, cast intake, chevy crank, no $1800 rings, no vacuum pump, 1.6 jesel, stock dia. lifters,stock cam tunnel, powerglide trans.
With Pattersons expertise my 320" motor made 630hp on their dyno.
I recently sold those heads cheap.
I still have 2 more sets and I am sure there are more out there. Even with 30 year old modified iron heads you can make enough power to run under todays index.
If you can avoid any heads up runs with the few good high dollar cars out there you can have a modified car in the show and have as good a shot at winning as anyone.

Jim Hawkins · 10-26-2015, 10:46 PM

As far as that iron head LS combo I think that was only available in a truck.
Not sure if that matters today.

SSDiv6 · 10-26-2015, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Hawkins

As far as that iron head LS combo I think that was only available in a truck.
Not sure if that matters today.

None of the allowed heads, Chevy Vortec Bowtie, Ford N-351, Mopar W-5 and the aftermarket approved heads were available in a production engine. The LS cast iron head is a production head. The LS cast iron production block is the same GM Performance offers for racing for engines making 1000+ HP.

Dick Butler · 10-26-2015, 11:45 PM

Randy, what was the cost of your suggested Modified Motors In the econo Mod class we had discussed? What did they run at what weight for comparison with the ones these guys are discussing? Yours were only one 4 barrel too weren't they?

Maybe these guys could see a way to join our discussion of a more basic motor MOD class.

randy wilson · 10-27-2015, 07:26 AM

Will answer Dick's question in a minute, but Jim Hawkin's used parts used to end up at our local track, and I had to compete against them in a heads up deal. Ha! Now, Jim is right that you can put a .2 to .3 under car together relatively cheap, but we did a Brodix spec motor at 289 c. i. That did 592 hp at 9,200 for under $10,000 that we ran 6.29 at 109.67 in the 1/8th versus a $28,000 dollar SS/CS 291 motor that dynoed at 638 and ran 6.16 111.27 in the eighth. But I used a Chevy block with the spec engine, used Pistons, Chevy destroked crank, groden rods, Chevy cam, Chevy lifters, used pan, cast hurricane intake, but my point is, the choke area is the heads. A short block is only worth so much power no matter how much you spend on it.

randy wilson · 10-27-2015, 07:54 AM

Also, both engines were at 10.5 lbs. per cube.

randy wilson · 10-27-2015, 08:05 AM

Also, just to be fair, the 291 was in 3,300 ft. Air when it ran that, and the 289 was in 800 ft. Air. The 291 did Run 6.09 at 116.86 at Eddyville in 200 ft. Air, but it was just a test and tune night, and I hate to count those.

Chevy55 · 10-27-2015, 08:13 AM

If you guys don't mind my input I put together a 275" 18* sbc with hand me down Comp parts, 660 carbs w/850 base plates and a cam that I've had for over 30 years.
Including the used Hogan manifold and dyno I spent less than 10k.
625 hp thanks to Jeff Lawrence and he wanted to update the cam which he said would add 25hp.

Mike Mans · 10-27-2015, 09:06 AM

Adding even more to my point earlier, Jim Hawkins won the Division 5 championship with his SS/CS combo back when he ran it! I'm sure he did his best to avoid running Ricky Ray back then as he had the other CS car in D5, and the car without the latest and greatest still stood tall at the end of the day.

I guess I'm not understanding why Dick is so insistent on creating a new class? There are 110 classes right now in Super Stock eliminator. If you can't find one of those that you are interested in competing in - maybe NHRA isn't what you want to do? I know there is the Chicago Outlaw Super Stock group, and the Ozark Mountain Super Shifters groups that have a lot of Super Stock type cars that are bad to the bone! You've been at the top of the heap of Super Stock before Dick, you know it's never going to be cheap or without its pains. Oddly enough you're one of the most professionally successful guys I knew as a kid, so if you're uncomfortable with the costs - how do you think the rest of us that are still competing feel?! It will likely never change because nobody competing in the class really wants it to change - we've entered it knowing full and well what it takes to do it right.

Sadly it doesn't matter what you build, when you go to sell it - they are all worth peanuts in comparison. We sold our SS/CS motor complete carb to pan with the converter and rear end gears for under $25k. That motor has the best of everything in it and over $35k in parts alone.

Mike

Dick Butler · 10-27-2015, 09:45 AM

Mike, I have two issues I wish we could handle.
1) as you say the cost of the motor.- What if everyone HAD to use a $10,000 motor.
answer- a cheaper class where people could escape the $30,000 motors and still be even in opportunity to win class.
2) place where if it became popular enough it might show up heads up at local racing, divisional or even National events for the theory of budget limited people. The opposite of SS/AH, but same fun for the racers...
I had thought as Randy that running the eliminator is still possible in the Mod classes with a basic spare parts motor for fun but "Heads Up Class" racing seems to be so Factoring limited it is truly purchased by the latest car buyer...finding the "rocket". Costly yearly issues.....
Maybe a new class isn't needed. Maybe a head change in rules for Spec head would not upset some guys running one of the mod classes at this point. It could solve some problems of parts breakage or scarcity.

10-26-2015, 10:39 PM	#41
Jim Hawkins Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 186 Likes: 82 Liked 109 Times in 32 Posts	Re: SS Modified I ran SS/CS from 1991 till 1999. I chose this class as a modified class without having to have the newest cyl. head every couple years. This is still a great class and can be run on a budget IF you are happy with .30-.40 under. I ran a best of 9.77 back then in my dinosaur 67 camaro. Phase 1 bowties, cast intake, chevy crank, no $1800 rings, no vacuum pump, 1.6 jesel, stock dia. lifters,stock cam tunnel, powerglide trans. With Pattersons expertise my 320" motor made 630hp on their dyno. I recently sold those heads cheap. I still have 2 more sets and I am sure there are more out there. Even with 30 year old modified iron heads you can make enough power to run under todays index. If you can avoid any heads up runs with the few good high dollar cars out there you can have a modified car in the show and have as good a shot at winning as anyone.

10-26-2015, 10:46 PM	#42
Jim Hawkins Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 186 Likes: 82 Liked 109 Times in 32 Posts	Re: SS Modified As far as that iron head LS combo I think that was only available in a truck. Not sure if that matters today.

10-26-2015, 11:45 PM	#44
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,197 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: SS Modified Randy, what was the cost of your suggested Modified Motors In the econo Mod class we had discussed? What did they run at what weight for comparison with the ones these guys are discussing? Yours were only one 4 barrel too weren't they? Maybe these guys could see a way to join our discussion of a more basic motor MOD class.

10-27-2015, 07:26 AM	#45
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 20 Times in 20 Posts	Re: SS Modified Will answer Dick's question in a minute, but Jim Hawkin's used parts used to end up at our local track, and I had to compete against them in a heads up deal. Ha! Now, Jim is right that you can put a .2 to .3 under car together relatively cheap, but we did a Brodix spec motor at 289 c. i. That did 592 hp at 9,200 for under $10,000 that we ran 6.29 at 109.67 in the 1/8th versus a $28,000 dollar SS/CS 291 motor that dynoed at 638 and ran 6.16 111.27 in the eighth. But I used a Chevy block with the spec engine, used Pistons, Chevy destroked crank, groden rods, Chevy cam, Chevy lifters, used pan, cast hurricane intake, but my point is, the choke area is the heads. A short block is only worth so much power no matter how much you spend on it. __________________ don,t have one

10-27-2015, 07:54 AM	#46
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 20 Times in 20 Posts	Re: SS Modified Also, both engines were at 10.5 lbs. per cube. __________________ don,t have one

10-27-2015, 08:05 AM	#47
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 20 Times in 20 Posts	Re: SS Modified Also, just to be fair, the 291 was in 3,300 ft. Air when it ran that, and the 289 was in 800 ft. Air. The 291 did Run 6.09 at 116.86 at Eddyville in 200 ft. Air, but it was just a test and tune night, and I hate to count those. __________________ don,t have one

10-27-2015, 08:13 AM	#48
Chevy55 Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 304 Likes: 606 Liked 168 Times in 83 Posts	Re: SS Modified If you guys don't mind my input I put together a 275" 18* sbc with hand me down Comp parts, 660 carbs w/850 base plates and a cam that I've had for over 30 years. Including the used Hogan manifold and dyno I spent less than 10k. 625 hp thanks to Jeff Lawrence and he wanted to update the cam which he said would add 25hp.

10-27-2015, 09:06 AM	#49
Mike Mans Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 177 Likes: 21 Liked 297 Times in 48 Posts	Re: SS Modified Adding even more to my point earlier, Jim Hawkins won the Division 5 championship with his SS/CS combo back when he ran it! I'm sure he did his best to avoid running Ricky Ray back then as he had the other CS car in D5, and the car without the latest and greatest still stood tall at the end of the day. I guess I'm not understanding why Dick is so insistent on creating a new class? There are 110 classes right now in Super Stock eliminator. If you can't find one of those that you are interested in competing in - maybe NHRA isn't what you want to do? I know there is the Chicago Outlaw Super Stock group, and the Ozark Mountain Super Shifters groups that have a lot of Super Stock type cars that are bad to the bone! You've been at the top of the heap of Super Stock before Dick, you know it's never going to be cheap or without its pains. Oddly enough you're one of the most professionally successful guys I knew as a kid, so if you're uncomfortable with the costs - how do you think the rest of us that are still competing feel?! It will likely never change because nobody competing in the class really wants it to change - we've entered it knowing full and well what it takes to do it right. Sadly it doesn't matter what you build, when you go to sell it - they are all worth peanuts in comparison. We sold our SS/CS motor complete carb to pan with the converter and rear end gears for under $25k. That motor has the best of everything in it and over $35k in parts alone. Mike

10-27-2015, 09:45 AM	#50
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,197 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: SS Modified Mike, I have two issues I wish we could handle. 1) as you say the cost of the motor.- What if everyone HAD to use a $10,000 motor. answer- a cheaper class where people could escape the $30,000 motors and still be even in opportunity to win class. 2) place where if it became popular enough it might show up heads up at local racing, divisional or even National events for the theory of budget limited people. The opposite of SS/AH, but same fun for the racers... I had thought as Randy that running the eliminator is still possible in the Mod classes with a basic spare parts motor for fun but "Heads Up Class" racing seems to be so Factoring limited it is truly purchased by the latest car buyer...finding the "rocket". Costly yearly issues..... Maybe a new class isn't needed. Maybe a head change in rules for Spec head would not upset some guys running one of the mod classes at this point. It could solve some problems of parts breakage or scarcity.