1966 - Page 2

Paul Ceasrine · 06-17-2010, 07:16 PM

Lee,
Sorry, not to list it.
Your Pop may have had the only one ever built.
Not too many people rushing in to purchase 66' 427 Chevrolet Wagons.
Only us at Dover knew it existed.
I saw your Pop run those times, with the brake-lights on going through the traps.
Remember, I was always at the end of the pits, near the Trophy Booth.
What was it, C/S in 66', B/S in 67' and D/S in 68'??
Your Pop and Joe Kenney 'Trick Tank", all the time.
I would imagine the favorite TV show was 'Wagon Train'

Don't you just hate PV544 red Volvo's. me too

Paul

Paul Ceasrine · 06-18-2010, 10:34 AM

Lee,
There was another wagon from upstate New York (Western region).
A 1966 BelAir with a 427/390 HP engine.
Yellow with American Mag wheels (charcoal-type).
I believe it was another protested car, when it ran in D/S in 66'.
Car ran in F/S in 68' (10.50-10.99 wt/hp). Then saw it again in
69'/70' running in SS/J.
The car had a bunch of stuff hanging underneath it, wires and cables,
and loose brackets. Still ran 12.50's, Not bad for #4170 lbs.
Paul

Paul Ceasrine · 06-18-2010, 11:22 AM

Lee,
Thanks for giving me the lead on the station wagons.
Forgot a couple, don't know how,,, They Won Everything!!!
PC

Paul Ceasrine · 06-19-2010, 09:29 AM

OJ Hiding,
Yes, you can see the range of C/S in 1966.
Weight bracket 9.50 - 10.59, very big GAP!
From a 66' Chevrolet Biscayne (station wagon) 427/425 HP
to a 66' Mustang (Hardtop) 289/271 HP (K-Code).
Wonder what that looked like on the starting line??

On the 66' Hemi Charger for A/S.
The Hemi Charger weighed in at #3895, and fell into the top-end of the A/S weight bracket (8.00 - 8.69), with an 8.65 wt/hp.
The Hemi Belvedere and Hemi Coronet (sedan post-cars) weighed in at
#3640 lbs. A much better weight break for A/S.
Not only were the sedan post-cars #250 lbs. lighter, they were more rigid, because of the post design. The Charger was designed like the hardtop-coupe.
The less weight and more rigid design was probably worth 4/10's quicker ET.
The Hemi Charger was geared more towards Nascar.
PC

Paul Ceasrine · 06-21-2010, 08:36 AM

R/T,
*In 1966, at the Winternationals, Don Grotheer in a 66' Belvedere
Sedan Hemi defeated Bill Jenkins in the 66' Chevy II for A/S.
*At the Springnationals, Jere Stahl in his 66' Belvedere Sedan Hemi
defeated Bill Jenkins
* At the Super/Stock Magazine Nationals, Bill Jenkins won, defeating
a 66' Chevelle Malibu SS396 B/S car.
* At the Nationals at Indy. Jere Stahl defeated Bill Jenkins for Top Stock
honors.
* At the Wolrd Finals, Jere Stahl defeated Bill Jenkins for Top Stock.

If you check out the ET's, you can see the 66' Belvedere Street Hemi
sedan with 7" slicks and stock camshaft ran 11.90's.
For the most part, if you took a stock 66' Hemi Belvedere 4-speed,
put in 4.56 gears, headers and 7" slicks, you should have been able to get into the 12.80's.
PC

X-TECH MAN · 06-21-2010, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine

R/T,
*In 1966, at the Winternationals, Don Grotheer in a 66' Belvedere
Sedan Hemi defeated Bill Jenkins in the 66' Chevy II for A/S.
*At the Springnationals, Jere Stahl in his 66' Belvedere Sedan Hemi
defeated Bill Jenkins
* At the Super/Stock Magazine Nationals, Bill Jenkins won, defeating
a 66' Chevelle Malibu SS396 B/S car.
* At the Nationals at Indy. Jere Stahl defeated Bill Jenkins for Top Stock
honors.
* At the Wolrd Finals, Jere Stahl defeated Bill Jenkins for Top Stock.

If you check out the ET's, you can see the 66' Belvedere Street Hemi
sedan with 7" slicks and stock camshaft ran 11.90's.
For the most part, if you took a stock 66' Hemi Belvedere 4-speed,
put in 4.56 gears, headers and 7" slicks, you should have been able to get into the 12.80's.
PC

They were allowed an aftermarket higher lift cam in A/S (AA/S in 1967) in 1966. Most Hemi guys used the Racer Brown STX-23 (Chryslers recommened cam) flat tappet cam. Grumpy used an Iskenderian 550 flat tappet cam. Most ran 11.80's on 7 inch tires. I beleive it was Grotheer who used 2nd gear at the starting line to try to kill some of the Hemi's low end torque to get off the starting line better with those 7 inch tires. One of Stahls secret weapons was a NASCAR geared trans until Chrysler wanted it back which had a different low gear (somewhere around 2.20 instead of 2.66). That cause a lot of grief between Chrysler and Stahl as he didnt want to give it back.

Paul Ceasrine · 06-21-2010, 09:28 AM

X-Tech,
Thanks, I meant to say NHRA-legal camshaft for A/S in 1966.
Don't think you could run 11.90's with the factory.480/.460 bump-stick.
Knew there had to be some trick with Grotheer and Stahl, leaving the line
straight and not going up in smoke, and not sending out a driveshaft
via=air-freight

PC
X-Tech,
Did anybody in Mopar ever try to get the 1964 Plymouth Sport Fury or Dodge Polara cars legal with the early 64' 426/385HP (Nascar) Max-wedge engine into NHRA..
11.0-1 pistons, Stage III Max-Wedge heads,.520 solid-lift camshaft, Nascar DP aluminum intake and single Holley Model #4160 (860cfm) w/center-feed inlet (part# 2532095)
Would have fallen nicely into the 8.70-9.49 wt/hp break. Would have
been a perfect A/Stocker for 1964/65, and B/Stocker for 66' instead of the over-rated 426/365HP Street-Wedge over-rated at 365HP. T
The 426/385HP would have been one great street/strip engine.

R/T.
Max-Wedge Stage III heads had bigger ports, added bridging for the deck surface,
2.08 intakes/1.88 exhaust valves, crescent-shaped combustion chambers and the sides of the combustion chamber (intake side) cut for improved flow, as well as an additional 0-degree
top dress angle on the valve seats, and the heat cross-over port removed/closed. An easy
40HP+ over stock cylinder heads.

Paul Ceasrine · 06-21-2010, 01:47 PM

Neil,
1970 NHRA Winternationals, Stock Eliminator Champ,
Rich Charbonneau, 67' Fairlane Wagon 427/410 HP, E/Stock
I think it may have been classed in B/S in 67. Ran 12.05's.

Also, that is when Dick Landy won B/MP with the 69' Dodge Charger
Hemi 'Flyin Wedge'. 10.74 and set record. A little confusion out there.
During the 69' season, the Charger ran in SS/F (heavy car), then into B/MP at the end of 69' and early 70'.
PC

X-TECH MAN · 06-21-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine

X-Tech,
Thanks, I meant to say NHRA-legal camshaft for A/S in 1966.
Don't think you could run 11.90's with the factory.480/.460 bump-stick.
Knew there had to be some trick with Grotheer and Stahl, leaving the line
straight and not going up in smoke, and not sending out a driveshaft
via=air-freight

PC
X-Tech,
Did anybody in Mopar ever try to get the 1964 Plymouth Sport Fury or Dodge Polara cars legal with the early 64' 426/385HP (Nascar) Max-wedge engine into NHRA..
11.0-1 pistons, Stage III Max-Wedge heads,.520 solid-lift camshaft, Nascar DP aluminum intake and single Holley Model #4160 (860cfm) w/center-feed inlet (part# 2532095)
Would have fallen nicely into the 8.70-9.49 wt/hp break. Would have
been a perfect A/Stocker for 1964/65, and B/Stocker for 66' instead of the over-rated 426/365HP Street-Wedge over-rated at 365HP. T
The 426/385HP would have been one great street/strip engine.

R/T.
Max-Wedge Stage III heads had bigger ports, added bridging for the deck surface,
2.08 intakes/1.88 exhaust valves, crescent-shaped combustion chambers and the sides of the combustion chamber (intake side) cut for improved flow, as well as an additional 0-degree
top dress angle on the valve seats, and the heat cross-over port removed/closed. An easy
40HP+ over stock cylinder heads.

The combo wasnt listed in the guide back in that era. If anyone ever tried to get them listed as stock I never heard about it. Never saw one either except at a NASCAR race.

Paul Ceasrine · 06-21-2010, 03:57 PM

X-Tech,
Only asking about that combination, because of a recent Richard Petty
biography.
In early 1964, his light-blue Belvedere was running with 385 HP on the hood. Couldn't figure out what is was. Then saw his crew pulling the engine. A Max-wedge engine, with a DP intake and monster 860cfm
center-feed inlet Holley.
A little research, found it as a 426 11.0-1 pistons, Max Wedge Stage III
heads, .520 camshaft solid-lifter, aluminum dual-plane and the Holley.
A neat 385HP.
A 3350lb. car with that HP would fit into the 64' (8.70-9.49 wt/hp) of A/S.
The Belvedere was a tad light, but the Sport Fury #3407 weight would have been a good fit. Car would have made a nice B/S in 68'
Surprised this never made it. Going by the calculations, can't see this
engine combo not doing at least 12.20's back-in-the-day.
PC

06-17-2010, 07:16 PM	#11
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: 1966 Lee, Sorry, not to list it. Your Pop may have had the only one ever built. Not too many people rushing in to purchase 66' 427 Chevrolet Wagons. Only us at Dover knew it existed. I saw your Pop run those times, with the brake-lights on going through the traps. Remember, I was always at the end of the pits, near the Trophy Booth. What was it, C/S in 66', B/S in 67' and D/S in 68'?? Your Pop and Joe Kenney 'Trick Tank", all the time. I would imagine the favorite TV show was 'Wagon Train' Don't you just hate PV544 red Volvo's. me too Paul

06-18-2010, 10:34 AM	#12
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: 1966 Lee, There was another wagon from upstate New York (Western region). A 1966 BelAir with a 427/390 HP engine. Yellow with American Mag wheels (charcoal-type). I believe it was another protested car, when it ran in D/S in 66'. Car ran in F/S in 68' (10.50-10.99 wt/hp). Then saw it again in 69'/70' running in SS/J. The car had a bunch of stuff hanging underneath it, wires and cables, and loose brackets. Still ran 12.50's, Not bad for #4170 lbs. Paul Last edited by Paul Ceasrine; 06-18-2010 at 10:46 AM.

06-18-2010, 11:22 AM	#13
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: 1966 Lee, Thanks for giving me the lead on the station wagons. Forgot a couple, don't know how,,, They Won Everything!!! PC

06-19-2010, 09:29 AM	#14
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: 1966 OJ Hiding, Yes, you can see the range of C/S in 1966. Weight bracket 9.50 - 10.59, very big GAP! From a 66' Chevrolet Biscayne (station wagon) 427/425 HP to a 66' Mustang (Hardtop) 289/271 HP (K-Code). Wonder what that looked like on the starting line?? On the 66' Hemi Charger for A/S. The Hemi Charger weighed in at #3895, and fell into the top-end of the A/S weight bracket (8.00 - 8.69), with an 8.65 wt/hp. The Hemi Belvedere and Hemi Coronet (sedan post-cars) weighed in at #3640 lbs. A much better weight break for A/S. Not only were the sedan post-cars #250 lbs. lighter, they were more rigid, because of the post design. The Charger was designed like the hardtop-coupe. The less weight and more rigid design was probably worth 4/10's quicker ET. The Hemi Charger was geared more towards Nascar. PC Last edited by Paul Ceasrine; 06-19-2010 at 11:00 AM.

06-21-2010, 08:36 AM	#15
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: 1966 R/T, In 1966, at the Winternationals, Don Grotheer in a 66' Belvedere Sedan Hemi defeated Bill Jenkins in the 66' Chevy II for A/S. At the Springnationals, Jere Stahl in his 66' Belvedere Sedan Hemi defeated Bill Jenkins * At the Super/Stock Magazine Nationals, Bill Jenkins won, defeating a 66' Chevelle Malibu SS396 B/S car. * At the Nationals at Indy. Jere Stahl defeated Bill Jenkins for Top Stock honors. * At the Wolrd Finals, Jere Stahl defeated Bill Jenkins for Top Stock. If you check out the ET's, you can see the 66' Belvedere Street Hemi sedan with 7" slicks and stock camshaft ran 11.90's. For the most part, if you took a stock 66' Hemi Belvedere 4-speed, put in 4.56 gears, headers and 7" slicks, you should have been able to get into the 12.80's. PC

06-21-2010, 09:28 AM	#17
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: 1966 X-Tech, Thanks, I meant to say NHRA-legal camshaft for A/S in 1966. Don't think you could run 11.90's with the factory.480/.460 bump-stick. Knew there had to be some trick with Grotheer and Stahl, leaving the line straight and not going up in smoke, and not sending out a driveshaft via=air-freight PC X-Tech, Did anybody in Mopar ever try to get the 1964 Plymouth Sport Fury or Dodge Polara cars legal with the early 64' 426/385HP (Nascar) Max-wedge engine into NHRA.. 11.0-1 pistons, Stage III Max-Wedge heads,.520 solid-lift camshaft, Nascar DP aluminum intake and single Holley Model #4160 (860cfm) w/center-feed inlet (part# 2532095) Would have fallen nicely into the 8.70-9.49 wt/hp break. Would have been a perfect A/Stocker for 1964/65, and B/Stocker for 66' instead of the over-rated 426/365HP Street-Wedge over-rated at 365HP. T The 426/385HP would have been one great street/strip engine. R/T. Max-Wedge Stage III heads had bigger ports, added bridging for the deck surface, 2.08 intakes/1.88 exhaust valves, crescent-shaped combustion chambers and the sides of the combustion chamber (intake side) cut for improved flow, as well as an additional 0-degree top dress angle on the valve seats, and the heat cross-over port removed/closed. An easy 40HP+ over stock cylinder heads. Last edited by Paul Ceasrine; 06-21-2010 at 01:22 PM. Reason: add-on

06-21-2010, 01:47 PM	#18
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: 1966 Neil, 1970 NHRA Winternationals, Stock Eliminator Champ, Rich Charbonneau, 67' Fairlane Wagon 427/410 HP, E/Stock I think it may have been classed in B/S in 67. Ran 12.05's. Also, that is when Dick Landy won B/MP with the 69' Dodge Charger Hemi 'Flyin Wedge'. 10.74 and set record. A little confusion out there. During the 69' season, the Charger ran in SS/F (heavy car), then into B/MP at the end of 69' and early 70'. PC

06-21-2010, 03:57 PM	#20
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: 1966 X-Tech, Only asking about that combination, because of a recent Richard Petty biography. In early 1964, his light-blue Belvedere was running with 385 HP on the hood. Couldn't figure out what is was. Then saw his crew pulling the engine. A Max-wedge engine, with a DP intake and monster 860cfm center-feed inlet Holley. A little research, found it as a 426 11.0-1 pistons, Max Wedge Stage III heads, .520 camshaft solid-lifter, aluminum dual-plane and the Holley. A neat 385HP. A 3350lb. car with that HP would fit into the 64' (8.70-9.49 wt/hp) of A/S. The Belvedere was a tad light, but the Sport Fury #3407 weight would have been a good fit. Car would have made a nice B/S in 68' Surprised this never made it. Going by the calculations, can't see this engine combo not doing at least 12.20's back-in-the-day. PC