Super class survey

[BOO BOO]

Some one PLEASE help me on this one. What will dropping the index do in helping out the NHRA super class's? Only thing it would help is IHRA if they don't follow . I know this is only a survey but it is scaring alot of racers. I think most of our cars can run fast enough but we build them for durability since we run 3 cars. Sorry to say they are mopars and the cost is alot higher then those bow ties. The speed thing does not bother me or my father we are only low to mid 150 in gas and mid 160 in comp, you still have to cut a light and run the number. Who cares about the 10 fans in the stands,let Broadway Bob promote the races and bring Bennie the bomb or robosorice back. Why change something that is not broken? If they do someday will we lose racers? Don't forget the chassis cert. Will more fans stay and watch? I don't think so.
This is just my .02cents
Chuck Siegler
one day Div.3 champ S/G or S/C

[Jason Oldfield]

Originally Posted by Chris Williams

This is a naive response. I have 25+ years in the software business, and get pulled aside at every track I go to answering software questions. Track operators are among the worst. I've seen computers that are 15 years old, and software that hasn't been upgraded since the Clinton administration. They all work on the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality.

OK, fine.

Originally Posted by Chris Williams

And, more importantly, such a change would almost certainly come at a cost from the vendor (read: Compulink). They'd only put the change into the latest version, I'm sure. So there would be cost to upgrade, and maybe even a need newer computers. Most track operators I know are exceptionally reluctant to spend money on this kind of thing.

Please. The addition of this feature would not tax these old computers so much that they would need to be replaced. If they can run the existing software with the existing timing features, this would most certainly not push them over the edge. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be replaced, but the addition of this sole feature would not mandate it.

That said, if there was a cost to implement the change, and NHRA pushed the upgrade cost on to the track owners, then they would either need to upgrade their systems or not host a national or LODRS event. I'm not saying the track owners wouldn't complain about it, but those are the facts of life. I've seen tracks all over the country upgrading to LED bulbs and crosstalk systems, and haven't heard of a single instance of a national or LODRS event being pulled because of a track operator's unwillingness to upgrade.

Originally Posted by Chris Williams

Finally, as I said above, the rules would be just silly and complex.

In short, this would never happen. You need to find another way to solve the perceived problem of people going "too fast" (this is racing, right?).

I don't disagree about the implementation of speed limits. But, we currently get disqualified for going too quick, so using your logic I guess we currently aren't racing (which, quite frankly, could be argued since we aren't "racing" as per the definition of the word). Anyway, my ideal solution is the elimination of electronics, not the implementation of speed limits, as speed limits would just be a band-aid to the underlying problem. So there's no sense us arguing the semantics of the implementation of speed limits, particularly since neither you nor I want to see them put into place.

[budman]

Originally Posted by Dave Steltz

I got both ....SST and SG...heres my take..

Screw Div and Nat events, sitting around for days on end and getting a run here or there...

I'm going small association and bracket racing..

I love the Pro Tree part, just not the ridiculous entry fees and crappy payout...

And the Scotty rule...in todays environment, who cares...does anyone really think that some big hitters will all of a suddden go buy ex-pro stock cars, weight them down to weigh 2800 lbs and come to SST ? Oh thats right we dont have any of those now..not...plenty of 150 mph chassis SST cars out there today...to me its more about the guy who runs SST today and wants to get a stocker or something...

And dont tell me about MPH differences and safety...why is it different than backet racing a 10.90 car against a 7.40 dragster...happens all day...its probably alot worse driving one of those 15 second stockers against some of the newer 9 sec stockers..

And lastly people in the stands...hmmm thinking not...if you use the stop, its over for them...regardless of you're on for 1 sec or 5...

Ok back to your regularly scheduled program..gotta go take my meds...

I agree. Lets get an association going in each division to run at different tracks during the year. Screw NHRA. We could run ET and a super class like national opens. NHRA doesn't care about us but they like our money. Super classes are on the way down. Why do you think they brought in Top Dragster and Top Sportsman. We pay $150 and sit around for 3 days to win $1000. I like IHRA the way they are doing it. 1 day and you are done. At our local track we pay $60 to run ET to win $1200. If you qualify for the ET finals the pay is $3000 to win, and its free, and a trip to Ponoma with $3500 expenses to win another $3000. The divisional payout is not even close even if you win the championship. Maybe thats why my supergas car is for sell and why I'm setting up my Nova to run ET. And about lowering the index. Most super street cars are not certified to run under 10 seconds. If they run under they are in trouble.

[Rick Blake]

Originally Posted by hotrodgeno

it was 8.90 at 155
its 8.90 at 190 now.

and at VMP who's the guy with the blown dragster running 8.90 @ 200+

I have to agree with Tom also.....leave it alone, it ain't broke

[sc 5015]

I voted in s/c to lower index to 8.50. my opinion is nhra is just trying to feel this out and make sure it's gathering driver's interest and i commend them for that no matter what happens.

I do think we need to keep up w/ the times. Technology in tires, engines, chassis, etc. have all contributed to cars going faster and safer. A change to the super class indexes every 20 years should at least be considered as long as technology and cost continue to support it (which i believe it will).

In fact, I believe, you will occassionally get a few new racers into the super classes because of index changes. Right now a racer considering competing in the super classes w/ no data on the .90 index has to compete against racers w/ potentially years and years of data for their set up on the .90 index. To me, that's the biggest disadvantage, not mph. There's always going to be an advantage for anyone that can afford to go to more races and gather more data, as it should be. However, we all like parity in sports. A slight change to the index every 15-20 years would help level the playing field for everyone, no matter how many races they've attended, especially for anyone considering it for the first time.

Even though my car would easily handle the change to 7.90 I think that would be too drastic of a change all at once. Although, I would have voted for a change to 8.00 just to make explaining the breakout rule easier to explain

Happy Holidays all!

[Lou SG2340]

Originally Posted by Rick Blake

and at VMP who's the guy with the blown dragster running 8.90 @ 200+

I have to agree with Tom also.....leave it alone, it ain't broke

Ernie Kendal regulary runs 8.90 at 200 + I think he has been over 215

[dhmoore]

Reply to Mr. Budman,

I tried to run a Super Street Association here in Florida and Georgia. I got on the phone to call all the Super Street & Super gas Racers that I knew and could get a hold of, told them of our rules, pay out and entry fees, they all said they would make an effort to support the new association. At our first Association race at SGMP we had 15 cars the 1st day and 9 the second day. On both days there was a bracket race for the track itself. We watched 20-25 cars that could have run with us, but decided to just bracket race. So, tell me where do, you think you are going to get the cars to run at an association race. In the south we have too much good weather, too many tracks having high dollar bracket races and all that shows up are dragster and we still couldn't get a good car count to run Super Street. I even changed the rule to no a weight limit. At a divisional race you would see cars come out of the wood work. People would go to just visit & party. So now is not the time to start association up. Now that the economy has gotten worse you won't see half as many cars as of 2 yrs ago.

The stupidest rule that NHRA has is the weight, 2800lbs for Super Street. If NHRA would change that rule the car count would go up in SST. Because the slower super gas racers would have an opportunity to race SST and not worry about the weight limit. The guys who just bracket race in their light weight cars might come race with us also.

We have had super gas racers in the past run Super Street and not have their way with us as they were thinking they could. They under estimated the Division 2 Super Streeter’s. hahahaha!!!

That is all I have to say about that;

DJMoore 238D SST

[II4AQTR]

Just another opinion to add to the mix—

I will keep my comments related to S/ST as I have been a 20+ year member of the class—never a division champ—but enjoy the camaraderie of the S/ST clan. I do have a tube chassis car that needs weight to make the 2800 and run a 383 with iron heads from 1988 that cannot run close to the S/G number although it was my intention when the car was built way back in 1990. Eliminating tube cars may not provide any benefit to our class as we struggle to keep car counts as it is and I am unsure those of us (me included) would make the leap to the faster classes due to affordability. I do know that there are those out there that refuse to step toe into the S/ST water due to the high MPH cars. I am a constant recruiter of viable entries to the class and this is the most frequent answer I receive. I don’t hear the “your chassis is why I don’t go over” or “your car is lighter” it always comes back to the MPH. I would propose to only allow non-certified cars into the mix (tube chassis or not). My car will easily pass certification but I choose not too-I wear S/G safety items for myself and my family to give me comfort and confidence that I will return home safe after a day of pursuing my passion, yet I certainly can attest to getting my lunch handed to me by those that are not tube cars on way more than one occasion. The non-certification of a car is extremely easy to police from a technical aspect—no certification sticker and the tracks normal inspection takes over from there. It provides an avenue for older S/G cars to retire to (removed sticker) while keeping the speeds to a manageable number and safety at the forefront. Most car builders will build nothing but a car that meet the rules for certification—but that doesn’t mean you have to certify the vehicle. This will also make those S/G cars that can float between S/ST and S/G regularly choose one and stick with it—the sticker will drive the decision.

[sst7250]

Why does anyone think excluding certain cars from a class is a good thing? IE not allowing tube cars in S/ST. Maybe enforcing the existing ballast rules would help eliminate any of the flyweight S/ST cars if that is an issue. Having them step up to the next class. I think 2800 is a reasable limit personally. The ballast rules already exist in the books, just enforce what is there. I know my tube chassis car carries ZERO ballast and is overweight as it is now. It was originally a Pro Street car that became a racecar.

As for MPH limits, I can understand that point but how will it be enforced? As pointed out how do you explain to spectators that the guy who went 8.900 at 170.9 looses to the guy who goes 8.88 at 169.9? What will those MPH limits be? Bear in mind excluding cars from the classes will only help to dilute the fields even further. I think inclusion is the key not exclusion.

As for the spectator comments come on. I see the stands clear out for Pro Stock. How many people do you see attending bracket races as spectators? I have been in the stands listening to conversations of folkls trying to explain Comp Eliminator, they seem to ahve a hard enough time with that let alone any of the .90 classes...

It aint broke so dont fix it. Just my .02 worth

[Hokes Racing]

If it dont spit fire and say Force or Schumacher no one is going to watch anyway


PS have a 632 Big Chief that would make a good SG motor LOL