Making Aluminum Heads Legal for all SuperStockers

[Ernie Neal]

I say if you want Aluminum heads find a combination that uses them and go with it. If your brand doesn't provide such a thing, you know your options. Don't press the issue, for all other racers to have to invest in new heads and associated work, to appease your own interests.

Oh, I do have an aluminum head combination. Watch those valve seats!

Ernie Neal
SS3400

[dwydendorf]

There are plenty of late model engine combos available to run in Super Stock. If you can't find the heads you need at an affordable price, try running something that you can find heads for. If aluminum heads are made legal across for all Super Stocks, then everyone has obsolete heads and the market dries up to sell the heads that everyone has alot of time and money into. It just makes Super Stock racing that much more expensive. The AHFS can't adjust the horsepower factors now, let alone if you add more Aluminum heads to the game. Keep things the way they are.

[Jeff Lee]

Keep things the way they are?

I'm wondering if the SS/GT class was created (in part) because the 40 year old bodies were getting hard / expensive to come by?

Take the same gripes about aluminum heads and apply it to the GT classes. Seems like the issues are nearly identical.

[PONTIAC'S REVENGE]

Originally Posted by James L Miller

Since the Pontiacs had machined chambers from the factory, can Edelbrock just CNC the chamber to get closer to the 102cc chamber? I don't know how much material is in there to get it all the way to 102cc, but maybe if they can get it to 95cc then add HP to compensate, that would seem to be a good compromise.

Yes,
I think thats the step but then you cross the line on how to shape it and where would u hit water and how it would have to be welded. They deemed it too much of an advantage to play with the shape.

When you have a 9.5 to 1 engine I dont think it matters that much anyway. There are way more LIBERAL scenario's out there than that but I think there point is once you do it for one then you set a precedent for them all. I think a lot of these are mistakes like the 400 sbc head for years.

The officials are professionally careful in my opinion, so change come very slowly. We may get consideration as the aftermarket wave progresses. Just the diverse opinions of this thread are an example of what these guys go through with letters and phonecalls everyday.

We do need to keep the old combos affordable and competitive. It seems to be increasingly difficult to expect the factory's to maintain this. The aftermarket playing field will take over...but gradually. Not as a advantage medium but a survival one.

Headn to Vegas!!

Stacy
GTAA

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by treessavoy

Or, an expensive solution.....make everyone buy aluminum heads whereupon the odd engine/make car guys get gouged buy edlebrock while you chevy guys pay very little for yours.

JimR

You're wrong Jim. Period. We "Chevy guys" have to buy our heads through GM, and the bare castings cost every bit as much as any Edelbrock aluminum bare casting legal for NHRA Stock Eliminator. Sorry, try again.

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by Aaron Keown

On a closing note,do you really want to be remembered as the guys who took the last stock part out of super stock?I honestly could'nt tell you if that would be a good thing or a bad thing to be remembered for,but it is something that probably will be looked upon as a real turning point,be it for better or worse.

Something to think about for sure..
I dont think the "eye for eye" approach really works here..how much i hate seing "All Edelbrock" Ford 390's with deep pans)in stock .(how on earth could all this ever been approved?)..the ones that allready are in the system we can do nothing about but in the future i would rather see approving parts done with care depending on the(real) need..rather than acrross the board just to satisfy the hunger for performance that some have..

p.s.The Chevy B.B Head you have to angle mill and do all sorts of things to get it legal..so i dont see why the Pontiac issue would be any different in that case..

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

You're wrong Jim. Period. We "Chevy guys" have to buy our heads through GM, and the bare castings cost every bit as much as any Edelbrock aluminum bare casting legal for NHRA Stock Eliminator. Sorry, try again.

Nope,

Buying cast or aluminum heads will always be more expensive for Mopars, Buicks, Ramblers, etc. than Chevys. It's a market thing...the more you sell the less profit you need to make per item, the less you sell the more expensive the item will be .....and it doesn't matter who you bought them from.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by treessavoy

Nope,

Buying cast or aluminum heads will always be more expensive for Mopars, Buicks, Ramblers, etc. than Chevys. It's a market thing...the more you sell the less profit you need to make per item, the less you sell the more expensive the item will be .....and it doesn't matter who you bought them from.

Yeah, Jim, you are wrong. I buy, on average 10-12 sets of aluminum heads a year. The UP FRONT cost on the GMPP aluminum big block head is the same as the Edelbrock Ford FE head, or the Edelbrock Oldsmobile head. In the last 3 years, we've bought 4-5 sets of 401 casting GMPP big block NHRA legal aluminum heads. And 3-4 sets of Edelbrock NHRA legal FE Ford heads. And a set of the Oldsmobile Edelbrock heads. They are all within $200 in cost, per pair. Sorry Jim, you're absolutely wrong, period. You can only buy the GMPP 401 head from a GMPP dealer, such as Pace or Scoggin Dickey. You can buy the Edelbrock NHRA legal heads from anyone who sells Edelbrock.

And BSA 633 is right, if you use the GMPP 401 head to replace the old cast iron closed chamber head, it requires $2000 worth of work, including reaming the guides, angle milling the head, spot facing the bolt holes, and correcting the angle on the intake flange.

And I'm NOT advocating opening up the rules to allow more aftermarket stuff in Stock or Super Stock. All I'm doing here is correcting some seriously incorrect information.

[69ss/rs]

Originally Posted by Ernie Neal

I say if you want Aluminum heads find a combination that uses them and go with it. If your brand doesn't provide such a thing, you know your options. Don't press the issue, for all other racers to have to invest in new heads and associated work, to appease your own interests.

Oh, I do have an aluminum head combination. Watch those valve seats!

Ernie Neal
SS3400

Ernie, the combo I run already has aluminum heads. I have both, a steel head motor and aluminum, so I have already addressed my options. By the way we haven't had any valve seat problems, so I don't know what you are doing wrong.

[69ss/rs]

Originally Posted by Al Kuehl

I was just using that as an example of where this is headed if people like you get your way . Edelbrock doen't make the replacement carb's any more . I was just on there site last week they had 20 1902 carb's left and then that's it . F.J. Smith had a post on this thread that Edelbrock had made an offer to NHRA to supply Aluminum head's for all the Stock & Super Stock Engine combo's and NHRA had not responded . If they made the head's and it was not profitable how long do you think they would keep on making the head's ? Do you really think we would use enough head's to make it profitable for them ? It would go the way of the replacement Q-Jet's . You have to remember the Bean Counter's really run these companies . You are the last one that has anything to complain about . You already have a replacement head avaliable . Some of the Buick , Old's , Pontiac , AMC racer's do have a complaint .
Al

Al, haven't you been paying attention; I said before go on to Edelbrocks' website an you will see that they already have 90% of the heads that we are talking about. Indy Cylinder Heads and some other manufacturers will fill the missing heads that are needed. Lets' face it sooner or later NHRA has to start allowing replacement heads and blocks into the mix, because the manufacturers in most cases don't make the parts any longer. Your leave it the way it is thinking, is the reason that the car manufacturers are in the shape that they are in today. You have to look at the big picture, not just the here and now. What do you propose be done as the supply of available parts are depleted and no new parts are being made to replace them?