Single channel O2

[Signman]

Thanks Ed

Am using the data log as you say. One mistake have been making is tuning top 4 rows together. Same number stacked in each RPM cell. Not giving it a chance to tune itself.

The initial load at launch as tried to describe above has to be affecting my 300 #s as it is going very lean - very fat - very lean and then to target AF ratio. The only time it sees this RPM range (2500 - 5000) is at launch. With this converter never below 5050 in the worst air in any other gear.

[Ed Wright]

Frank, leave from a very low RPM to get a better look and more launch data. Footbraking, you can leave from an idle, if the initial rich spot moves or leaves you were seeing A.E. (like accelerator pump) fuel, so ignore that. Starting lower than you will ever leave racing will allow you to clean it up better.
In AlphaN mode the top three or four rows would be the same.

Good luck, Ed

[Signman]

Thanks Ed!!

[Adger Smith]

I was talking to one of my buddies at Comp about this thread and got this e-mail from him. Since it is Comp's policy that employees don't get involved with internet forums I hope I don't get him in trouble by posting it for all to see. I thought it was good info.

Quote:
You might want to suggest to Michael that if he is running in Alpha-N, he needs to try his program in open loop. Alpha-N ties the ECU to the TPS and tunes more like a carburetor that way without influence by the O2. Then use the O2 to track the results and make changes to his fuel map. Most of the Super Stockers I know of do not hesitate to go into the 13:1+ range with no damage. The Comp cars are forced into the 12.5-12.8 range because of the compression, but where there is very little………….

Also, there is a FAST option right in the catalog that is Digital Air/Fuel Meter RPM Module (part number 170536) that allows engine RPM to overlay the A/F ratio readings with an existing or new single or dual A/F meter during playback. "End Quote"

I hope this can help.....

[Ed Wright]

I hope Michael is not trying to run his in Closed Loop. If he is I missed that part. Might sound like a cool idea, but I have yet seen one run as quick or consistent as in open loop. I tried that also. It was constantly chasing it's tail. I don't think the ECU can make corrections fast enough for a decently quick race car. Everytime I've put someone's car in open loop it has picked up. Some guys just can't accept that, and insist it has to be better "because it always corrects it's self". About like drive by wire is better. LOL

[Michael Beard]

I just have it in closed loop in these early stages while I try to get the fuel map in the ballpark. At least if I get it too lean, it tries to richen it back up toward the Target A/F so I'm less likely to hurt something. I actually got things pretty close to where I wanted them at Maryland last week. Once I'm comfy with my general setup, I'll go back to open loop.

My biggest question marks currently are around the driveability/staging/launch area. Right now it's reading lean driving around the pits, real rich around launch in order to cover up any launch stumble (I know this really needs to be done rather with the acceleration enrichment deal, but I need to gain a better understanding of its use in practice. I understand that it's like an accelrator pump shot, but like everything else, I'm just trying to get a handle on what the numbers mean and "how much is how much?").

I've done a little reading in different forums, and seems like they're saying I should be around 14.5 or so driving around the pits (low TPS, low rpm). I've heard some people say they've got it CRAZY lean at launch rpm (doesn't sound like a good idea to me, don't want to hurt something), and others say a hair on the rich side (12.5). Again, as far as downtrack performance, this thing just flat hits a wall at 13.3 and won't get out of its own way unless I richen it up. In total, this thing just gobbles fuel.

Oh, one other (unrelated?) issue I'm having is that about once every 8-10 starts, the starter's kicking back. Never did that with the old motor, and all the other times, it fires right up almost instantly.

I don't have internal logging set up just yet, but have logged some runs via the laptop in testing.

[Ed Wright]

Michael, you really need the internal data logger working. Open collectors will give you bogus lean numbers at idle and very low speeds. If you want to email me I can send you instruction for wiring it up.
You don't need the logger for this: If you have a muffler that you can slip on the collector, or add an 18" or so extension, you will get accurate air/fuel data. In closed loop you can just repeatedly tap the L key on hour key board while watching the fuel map ( best to have a co-pilot for this if driving through the pits) and it will correct the fuel map for you. Before you shut it off save the file with a new name, click on "disconnect" also before shutting the engine off. Otherwise it won't keep the new map.
What are your RPM break points in your maps? I use 500 RPM. I can send you sheets I use when logging, easy to alter it to suit you. My email is ed-wright (at)sbcglobal.net
I sell and tune those, and may be able to help get you started.

Check your spark advance, lower/left corner of your spark map. Ten degrees starts most engines pretty well. Mine likes 20, smaller cams or more compression often don't. Kicking back against the started is often too much timing while cranking. AlphaN cranks in the lower left Cel. Speed density in the upper left.

[Michael Beard]

>> If you want to email me I can send you instruction for wiring it up.

E-mail sent!

>> Open collectors will give you bogus lean numbers at idle and very low speeds. (...) If you have a muffler that you can slip on the collector, or add an 18" or so extension, you will get accurate air/fuel data.

I might be able to steal the Borlas off the Dust Devil (my bracket car), or the old collectors with the Dynatech cone collector inserts may slip over the existing collector...

>> What are your RPM break points in your maps? I use 500 RPM.

300 in some spots, 600 in others. Trying to distribute things to where (I think) I need the most control over things, like around staging/launch rpm. Haven't done it yet, but I'm thinking it would make sense to narrow up the steps in the bottom 5-6 rows to better handle staging. Even in the burnout, I don't see more than 50% TPS. Wouldn't figure you'd need a lot of fine tuning control from 50-80%. Now, does it interpolate between the blocks, or is it a rigid cross reference chart?

I've been printing out my fuel maps so I have easy reference to past setups & trials. You'd think they'd have a print function. I've been doing a screen capture, dump it into MS Paint, and printing from there.

>> AlphaN cranks in the lower left Cel.

That makes sense. Wish it would say that implicitly somewhere in the manual. Yah, I had it at 25. I'll knock some out. Thanks!

Used to spend a lot of time back in the day playing with tuneups on cars in Burnout: Player's Choice Edition and the IHRA Drag Racing game. I enjoy this stuff. It just went a little quicker and easier when it was all on the computer!

[Ed Wright]

Hope I was able to help.

[Michael Beard]

Awesome, Ed, thanks! I just happened to have an unused toggle on my Painless panel that was already wired up for emergencies, just not connected to anything. Still had to tear the dash apart to figure out which wire and where it went since it's been years since we did it, but found it, and got everything set up properly and tested. Even flashed the ECU upgrade while I was at it.

Yep, already had a Dash #1 set up with just the necessary data points.

I'd made a bunch of changes to the fuel and spark maps this morning, and put it back in open loop. Starts better, sounds better at low rpms, and I leaned out the burnout areas of the map, which I'd had overly rich earlier. I'm very excited to have the internal data logger set up so that I don't have to get in trouble for being a dork and having the laptop bungied in the seat. ;-) Looking forward to doing some tuning. CalTracs are supposed to be here tomorrow, and should have them on the car for Richmond next week, then we can really get after it! :-)