Stick car, too much clutch? - Page 5

Ed Carpenter · 01-20-2013, 08:11 PM

Different things work for different cars. I know two guys(very fast) that not only do they not run cw they cut off the ears on the levers where the cw mounts to. I haven't had the guts to try that yet because once you go there you can't go back. My 327 ran alot better with no cw at all. I was only running 150 base also. You could start the car put it in gear and get out and it wouldn't move. I still have to figure out what the 283 is going to want. Alot depends on rpm also. You can run real low base if your leaving at 8400-8600.

01-21-2013, 10:50 AM

If you are trying to leave and shift at the same RPM CW is useless.

Run to Rund · 01-21-2013, 12:00 PM

To align the bell housing, I thread a long spring center bolt into the crank with a jam nut, and mount the dial indicator on it. I also check to make sure the bell housing mounting surface is parallel to the crank mounting surface--it sometimes is not!

joespanova · 01-21-2013, 12:16 PM

WOW , I wonder how many of the opinion posters are clutch assisted? I'll bet NONE................

acme383 · 01-21-2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuces wild

Different things work for different cars. I know two guys(very fast) that not only do they not run cw they cut off the ears on the levers where the cw mounts to. I haven't had the guts to try that yet because once you go there you can't go back. My 327 ran alot better with no cw at all. I was only running 150 base also. You could start the car put it in gear and get out and it wouldn't move. I still have to figure out what the 283 is going to want. Alot depends on rpm also. You can run real low base if your leaving at 8400-8600.

If you look at a softlok, the levers are very meaty on the counter weight side. Even with NO c.w. there is stll a certain amount of c.w. involved. That's why your friend cut off the end of the levers. Just bringing people up to speed in case they didn't know.

01-21-2013, 12:56 PM

What is your point? Is that a shot toward some one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by joespanova

WOW , I wonder how many of the opinion posters are clutch assisted? I'll bet NONE................

69Cobra · 01-21-2013, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joespanova

WOW , I wonder how many of the opinion posters are clutch assisted? I'll bet NONE................

Well I don't own any clutchless trannys so does that help you any?

joespanova · 01-21-2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

What is your point? Is that a shot toward some one?

Not unless you took it that way.
The point is / was, from my understanding the disruption of power with a clutch assisted trans usually requires CW for recovery.
Clutchless is a diff animal.

Sean Marconette · 01-21-2013, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acme383

If you look at a softlok, the levers are very meaty on the counter weight side. Even with NO c.w. there is stll a certain amount of c.w. involved. That's why your friend cut off the end of the levers. Just bringing people up to speed in case they didn't know.

It does matter on who's levers your looking at. For the most part your statement is correct. My Ram non CW levers had a lot of built in CW mass. So I bought their CW levers, those also had even more built in CW mass. Then I tried Hyatt billet levers, those were better, but still a lot of mass for my combination. Then what some consider the trick of the week clutch. These levers have pockets milled, and are very thin. These have a considerably better tuning window for my car. Data acquisition has shown how much, and for how long the CW is influencing slip. With the others everything was a trade off.

Joe now you did it!

Now you are going to open a whole new can of worms on using the clutch pedal or not using it! Have a good one.

Sean

Run to Rund · 01-21-2013, 06:24 PM

"The point is / was, from my understanding the disruption of power with a clutch assisted trans usually requires CW for recovery."

CW is not required if there is enough base clamp load. If the torque of the engine (which is what slips a clutch) is higher at take-off rpm, say 4000, and the base is just enough to hold there, then you have more than enough base pressure=clamp load at shift rpm where torque is lower.

What seems to be often done is to have the base lower than that, with the CW contribution at 4000 just enough to give a bit of slippage to prevent bogging the engine. Then, at shift rpm, the combined base and CW clamping loads are enough for full lockup. Of course, the CW contribution increases with rpm whereas the base stays the same.

01-20-2013, 08:11 PM	#41
Ed Carpenter Live Reporter Join Date: May 2006 Location: Dripping Springs, Tx Posts: 2,709 Likes: 186 Liked 520 Times in 132 Posts	Re: Stick car, too much clutch? Different things work for different cars. I know two guys(very fast) that not only do they not run cw they cut off the ears on the levers where the cw mounts to. I haven't had the guts to try that yet because once you go there you can't go back. My 327 ran alot better with no cw at all. I was only running 150 base also. You could start the car put it in gear and get out and it wouldn't move. I still have to figure out what the 283 is going to want. Alot depends on rpm also. You can run real low base if your leaving at 8400-8600. __________________ Ed Carpenter 2005 Chevy Cobalt A/SM Race Engine Development

01-21-2013, 10:50 AM	#42
Todd Hoven Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Stick car, too much clutch? If you are trying to leave and shift at the same RPM CW is useless.

01-21-2013, 12:00 PM	#43
Run to Rund Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Henderson, NV Posts: 583 Likes: 8 Liked 54 Times in 27 Posts	Re: Stick car, too much clutch? To align the bell housing, I thread a long spring center bolt into the crank with a jam nut, and mount the dial indicator on it. I also check to make sure the bell housing mounting surface is parallel to the crank mounting surface--it sometimes is not!

01-21-2013, 12:16 PM	#44
joespanova Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ga. Posts: 521 Likes: 7 Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Stick car, too much clutch? WOW , I wonder how many of the opinion posters are clutch assisted? I'll bet NONE................

01-21-2013, 06:24 PM	#50
Run to Rund Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Henderson, NV Posts: 583 Likes: 8 Liked 54 Times in 27 Posts	Re: Stick car, too much clutch? "The point is / was, from my understanding the disruption of power with a clutch assisted trans usually requires CW for recovery." CW is not required if there is enough base clamp load. If the torque of the engine (which is what slips a clutch) is higher at take-off rpm, say 4000, and the base is just enough to hold there, then you have more than enough base pressure=clamp load at shift rpm where torque is lower. What seems to be often done is to have the base lower than that, with the CW contribution at 4000 just enough to give a bit of slippage to prevent bogging the engine. Then, at shift rpm, the combined base and CW clamping loads are enough for full lockup. Of course, the CW contribution increases with rpm whereas the base stays the same.