Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??

[Harry 6674]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Quote Harry:The cars are available from the factory with the engines offered so the crate motor argument is also bogus.

Not so.The early DPs were delivered to you with a (I believe) caravan axle in place of the rear,a trans that was a core sent back to Chrysler with no innards,no driveshaft.
Now my little gremlin was driven home from the dealership and toiled on the streets of NYC for 125,000 miles.Not that's showroom available to the public.
NHRA doesn't need crate motors,they can (well used to before our present conditions,both economic and internal,as in NHRA buffoonery).IHRA added them for survival of the org.

I believe I said engines not transmissions or rearends. There is nothing done to these cars at the factory that you couldn't do to a regular show room model for stock class. It's all about the factor. What about all the body in white cars? They aren't strret legal or generally available to everyone.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Harry 6674

I believe I said engines not transmissions or rearends. There is nothing done to these cars at the factory that you couldn't do to a regular show room model for stock class. It's all about the factor. What about all the body in white cars? They aren't strret legal or generally available to everyone.

Exactly my point.You can't/couldn't drive one out of ther showroom.Putting a 12 bolt in place of a 10 boltis a long ways away from putting a fabricated rear housing under one of the early DP cars.

[Alan Roehrich]

Can you go buy a new Drag Pack Challenger, or Cobra Jet Mustang, drive it to the local DMV, have it inspected, buy license plates, and drive it on the street, in every state in the union? Or even excluding California.

That's why they do not belong in Stock Eliminator. You could go buy a 68 428 Super Cobra Jet Mustang and legally drive it. Or a 440 Six Pack 'Cuda. Or a 396 or 427 Camaro, Chevelle, or Impala.

The entire basis of Stock Eliminator was that you could buy the exact same car at the dealership and drive it on the street legally. At least it was, for about 40 years.

The new factory race cars are not even close to street legal, even by the loosest standards.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Harry 6674

As far as the new cars not being street legal that argument is bogus. The cars are available from the factory with the engines offered so the crate motor argument is also bogus. .

We're not talking about street legality here, VINs ,no VINS, original cost , or other diversions.
None of that stuff has been required in Stock Eliminator for at least 40 years,

What we're talking about is factory wringers..Those being cars not available to the general public for legal use on the highway.
No provisions for modern emission controls, no provisions for lock up torque converters, minimal or no modern crash protection devices ,high compression ratios that would never be certified for highway use....
In other words, Factory Experimental cars, not Stock Eliminator cars in the traditional sense.

Why this is so hard to understand for some, is beyond me.

[treessavoy]

Chassis1, I can guarantee that everyone of us started out looking through the fence at the fast and loud cars going down the track before we became racers, then we decided to try it with our street cars and progressed from there. We are not whining, we are stating facts. Dodge and Ford offered ready built racers to people that had a spare $100,000.00 laying around and the NHRA let them tun in Stock thus virtually eliminating all the existing cars in classes E - AA.

In the late '60's Mopar and Ford did the same thing with the race Hemi's and the Thunderbolts and the NHRA immediately put them into SUPER STOCK or FX because they were ready built race cars and not available for street driving.

The question is: Why didn't the NHRA do the same with these new cars ?

Yes, you can dig into you're Max Wedge and sqeeze some more HP but we've been doing that for 45 years and there is nothing left to squeeze and the same goes for the other class cars. Alan crews a '69 427 Camaro, do you think there is almost a second left to squeeze in order to compete with the new cars.....I doubt it.

As for new blood coming into Stock eliminator, most of this new generation can't afford to buy a car to drive much less a $100,000.00 race car and all the support stuff to go with it.

The point is these cars belong in SS or FX rather than Stock because they NEVER were stock!

JimR

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

We're not talking about street legality here, VINs ,no VINS, original cost , or other diversions.
None of that stuff has been required in Stock Eliminator for at least 40 years,

What we're talking about is factory wringers..Those being cars not available to the general public for legal use on the highway.
No provisions for modern emission controls, no provisions for lock up torque converters, minimal or no modern crash protection devices ,high compression ratios that would never be certified for highway use....
In other words, Factory Experimental cars, not Stock Eliminator cars in the traditional sense.

Why this is so hard to understand for some, is beyond me.

Not to mention these cars were put on a Jenny Craig diet that would have made Haystacks Calhoun look like Twiggy.(Wow does that make me show my age).

[Harry 6674]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

We're not talking about street legality here, VINs ,no VINS, original cost , or other diversions.
None of that stuff has been required in Stock Eliminator for at least 40 years,

What we're talking about is factory wringers..Those being cars not available to the general public for legal use on the highway.
No provisions for modern emission controls, no provisions for lock up torque converters, minimal or no modern crash protection devices ,high compression ratios that would never be certified for highway use....
In other words, Factory Experimental cars, not Stock Eliminator cars in the traditional sense.

Why this is so hard to understand for some, is beyond me.

I can understand about the not street legal crap. OK. But whats with lockup converter, crash protection, emission control? If you run your stocker with all this crap on it you are missing the boat. As far as compression ratios go I'm sure there are no laws regulating that. As far as the street legal deal goes I'm sure I could get one of those licenced as an assembled vehicle where I live.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Harry 6674

I can understand about the not street legal crap. OK. But whats with lockup converter, crash protection, emission control? If you run your stocker with all this crap on it you are missing the boat. As far as compression ratios go I'm sure there are no laws regulating that. As far as the street legal deal goes I'm sure I could get one of those licenced as an assembled vehicle where I live.

It's got nothing to do with what you are able to remove by the rulebook.

If you don't get it by now, I don't know what else to say..
Anybody else?

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Harry 6674

I can understand about the not street legal crap. OK. But whats with lockup converter, crash protection, emission control? If you run your stocker with all this crap on it you are missing the boat. As far as compression ratios go I'm sure there are no laws regulating that. As far as the street legal deal goes I'm sure I could get one of those licenced as an assembled vehicle where I live.

With the higher compression ratio's the manufacturers couldnt get the engines to pass smog certs. in most cases. Worse fact is the "Horse Pizz" they call gas and sell for the street would knock the bearings out of them or at least break the ring lands out of them, Not enough octane. Its not legal to run the $12 a gal. race fuel in most areas on the street but some I know still do it because of the lead content. Just saying.
I know......same deal for most pre 1971 engines such as a 427 69 Camaro.

[Jim Kaekel]

Very well said, Mark.