Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S - Page 5

Bobby Fazio · 02-15-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Ericksmoen

I'm curious, was anybody using the clutch to make a gear change anyway? (in stock and superstock)

Yes sirr, my obsolete Doug Nash won't shift without it.. I tried it haha.

Rich Wallin · 02-15-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Ericksmoen

I'm curious, was anybody using the clutch to make a gear change anyway? (in stock and superstock)

yes, indeed, the only financially responsible thing to do !! my Jerico sheets say precisely, you must use the clutch, 200 runs later i am not going to argue, it has not broken yet,

69ss/rs · 02-15-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randy wilson

yes. that silver cobalt that says [already gone]. is it thank you. guys, i have been beat by lots of autos and i have the utmost respect for them. we run ss/cs and bogner and manns are quicker than us but not because they have autos and weight breaks, it is because they have more HP and better setups right now. i would love to use that as my excuse, but we have actually tried a 2 speed and slowed down .35. every car we build is stick because we would be lost with auto. not pretty, just my 2 cents worth. also, the reason most people run auto is because it is basically a glorified bracket race.

Randy, pretty much everybody running modified with and automatic trans, is using a three speed. Most everybody uses Protrans,Coan,Rossler, or some of other trick three speeds out there. So if you put one of those in your car, than I think you would be singing a different tune. Hardly anybody uses a two speed anymore in modified.

David Barton · 02-15-2010, 08:25 PM

Hey Charlie, what is the difference in ET between stick and auto in your cars? If they were the same weight. I know you know. Care to share?

How about the Ficacci crew? Any thoughts or comments?

charlie westcott · 02-15-2010, 10:12 PM

I would say that the autos and sticks with the same motor are gonna be within .03. The 40# break makes up for the radial advantage. If the radials were consistant with a stick, than there would be a noticeable gain with the manual.

SPS · 02-15-2010, 11:10 PM

David:
This is not really fresh info, but when I was racing /BS with some good stuff, I back to backed a Glide and a 4 speed Jerico at an Orlando test day both on the same day.

The auto has a 5% weight break over the stick. ie: 150# (theoretically .15 sec)

They were a wash as far as ET's.

Now given today's 3 speed Pro Trans (-.05) and the radials (-.04 to -.06)

Doing the math gives the stick .04 to .06 advantage (theoretically) at the same weight.

As an aside, I wonder why the push for a clutchless wasn't put towards a 5 speed.
Think this would have been more productive.

FJ

Dave Ficacci · 02-15-2010, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Barton

Hey Charlie, what is the difference in ET between stick and auto in your cars? If they were the same weight. I know you know. Care to share?

How about the Ficacci crew? Any thoughts or comments?

In a stocker the stick is certainly faster by 04 to .06 all things being equal. Probably less in SS due to the bias tire growth.

Anybody can bolt it a Pro Trans and an ATI converter and go fast.
Only a handful can put a stick in and maximize it's potential.

To Charlie's point, if you can get the radial to work on the stick car, it wont even be close.

randy wilson · 02-16-2010, 09:08 AM

2 speed was what we had at the time. i think if we had a killer 3 speed i might have changed my mind. although, comp has a 250 lbs. break and with clutchless it seems to be a wash. i still think that is the true test, cause those guys do not mess around. but none of it matters now.

charlie westcott · 02-16-2010, 10:54 AM

one other variable is the rpm of a small modified motor, and lack of torque. If you take a 283 SS/K car, the stick will always be faster, but as you go up in the classes, and the power and TQ increases, the gain is minimized. Thats why the stick hemis have always been lighter, the gain isnt there in a higher classed car like it is in a SS/FM car.
cw

Pvt Parts · 02-16-2010, 08:40 PM

If you are gonna run a clutchless gearbox, 4 speed or 5 speed, you have to have a computer and a "real" clutch with the maintenance equipment to maximize the performance. If not you are gonna be left behind.

What you essentially have now is a 4 or 5 speed automatic with a lock up converter that you can set up any way you wish.... only better. A combination like this, properly set up will outrun anything in the class. Period.

02-15-2010, 08:25 PM	#44
David Barton Sponsor Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 199 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S Hey Charlie, what is the difference in ET between stick and auto in your cars? If they were the same weight. I know you know. Care to share? How about the Ficacci crew? Any thoughts or comments? Last edited by David Barton; 02-15-2010 at 08:30 PM.

02-15-2010, 10:12 PM	#45
charlie westcott Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 131 Likes: 0 Liked 218 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S I would say that the autos and sticks with the same motor are gonna be within .03. The 40# break makes up for the radial advantage. If the radials were consistant with a stick, than there would be a noticeable gain with the manual.

02-15-2010, 11:10 PM	#46
SPS Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Cayuga, Canada Posts: 297 Likes: 32 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S David: This is not really fresh info, but when I was racing /BS with some good stuff, I back to backed a Glide and a 4 speed Jerico at an Orlando test day both on the same day. The auto has a 5% weight break over the stick. ie: 150# (theoretically .15 sec) They were a wash as far as ET's. Now given today's 3 speed Pro Trans (-.05) and the radials (-.04 to -.06) Doing the math gives the stick .04 to .06 advantage (theoretically) at the same weight. As an aside, I wonder why the push for a clutchless wasn't put towards a 5 speed. Think this would have been more productive. FJ

02-16-2010, 09:08 AM	#48
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 20 Times in 20 Posts	Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S 2 speed was what we had at the time. i think if we had a killer 3 speed i might have changed my mind. although, comp has a 250 lbs. break and with clutchless it seems to be a wash. i still think that is the true test, cause those guys do not mess around. but none of it matters now. __________________ don,t have one

02-16-2010, 10:54 AM	#49
charlie westcott Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 131 Likes: 0 Liked 218 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S one other variable is the rpm of a small modified motor, and lack of torque. If you take a 283 SS/K car, the stick will always be faster, but as you go up in the classes, and the power and TQ increases, the gain is minimized. Thats why the stick hemis have always been lighter, the gain isnt there in a higher classed car like it is in a SS/FM car. cw

02-16-2010, 08:40 PM	#50
Pvt Parts Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Avon, Indiana Posts: 327 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Clutchless transmission permitted in S/S If you are gonna run a clutchless gearbox, 4 speed or 5 speed, you have to have a computer and a "real" clutch with the maintenance equipment to maximize the performance. If not you are gonna be left behind. What you essentially have now is a 4 or 5 speed automatic with a lock up converter that you can set up any way you wish.... only better. A combination like this, properly set up will outrun anything in the class. Period.