Factory experimental

[Bruce Noland]

Everybody has to make an honest attempt to stay on topic and no taunting posts.

This old thread has become a big diesel truck and we have to keep it between the lines.

[s10stocker]

I'm sorry but I don't believe there is one class out there that doesn't have that one killer combo that no one could hang with heads up. Usually it is a very odd combo inwitch they are there own worst enemy so they never take a hit. I'm a N/A V6 pickup and I run P/SA. My one killer combo I would never want to run is that Turbo 301ci V8 Pontiac Firebird. No matter what the factored HP is does anyone think a Turbo 301ci V8 sportscar should fall in with V6 trucks and station wagons? The best thing that could happen with these Mustangs is let them come out and get some heads up races even better still with each other. It will all shake out. Just think how madd yall would be if they would only let one of these out instead of a dozen. Like it or not this is bringing the MFGs and public back to sportsman racing. I'm a Chevy guy but hats off to Ford on showing interest in more than John Force(with his hemi powerplant) or NASCAR.

[Larry Munk]

With all the talk about getting the power down. Are they running the OE ECU's? I believe our 01 GT had traction control of some sort. Push button deal on the dash to disengage. If it's in the oe computer (ala e-shift) can it now be legal? Evan any input on traction control in Ford OE ECU's?

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

MPR,
I believe Alan was referring to the 4 Hajek cars that have been farmed out to some very talented racers.

Bruce, I do not remember saying anyone got anything for free. I think the closest I got to saying that is saying Ford should have helped Red LeBlanc get one.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by 442OLDS

I went to a Drag Expo today and there was quite a bit of discussion through out the show on these cars.Stock Eliminator will FINALLY be getting some media coverage I think.This is good for everyone involved in Stock Eliminator.Add a little weight,and get out of AA/SA or AA/S.I can run in F/SA at 3950 with my car.The weight actually makes the car more consistant.I do think that a 700 horsepower supercharged car in Stock is ridiculous,but be glad that NHRA hasn't allowed John Force to run his Funny Car in Stock Eliminator........................................ .....YET!

We have more HP than you. The excess weight really hurts parts. The guys with the Corvettes are bending rear suspension pieces running minimum weight in A. Talk to Calabro and Fasano about that. None of us could run B, at least not without killing drivetrain parts.

Stock will get about 10 extra minutes coverage from this, all year, if one of those cars wins a big race. NHRA couldn't care less about Stock getting any coverage. Stock gets maybe 30 seconds or so in the Sportsman show. We made a very small splash on the coverage for the Gators, they showed us when they came back from commercial, called the owner/driver by name, and showed a big wheel stand. I think that was the only mention of Stock I saw other than showing a quick shot of the winner all year.

[Dick Butler]

Dealing with the TOP/STK and Jr/STK I have to congratulate FORD for continuing their dedication to Drag Racing and pushing forward in the economic climate everywhere.
This is STK and SS chance to re take a part of the "SHOW" at NHRA and other events. NHRA will bend its rules or change them to get these cars a place to race as even THEY see the "SHOW" value of Heads Up Sportsman racing. NHRA needs it financially again to hope spectators will come to see these cars race show up and pay admission. If a wise man is in the business he will exploit it.
Between the BIG 3 they need to get a Camaro and a Challenger that can fit the same class together without a 500 lb ballast problem to be sure the "SHOW" can be complete again.
Racers need to work with this "SHOW" idea if at all possible for the benefits that will be there for everyone.
Look at FORD, they even stepped up to give a Prize for a ford winner. More sponsors to come back or support this new car show.

[Bruce Noland]

Alan,
You're right. I just checked again. MPR's post came right after one of your posts and assumed he was responding to your post. Wrong.

[Alan Roehrich]

This is not about these cars not being Chevrolet cars. There are plenty of the Chrysler cars that are getting bulldozed by this. Not just the 396, 427, and 454 Chevy cars are taking a hit on this. What about the Hemi cars and the Max Wedge cars? Yes, they'll get blown away by these new cars. What about the guys with the old style Fords who don't have the cash get a new CJ or Roush car, and some backing to go with it? Or don't want one?

As much as anyone might want to make this a problem with a favorite brand, it simply just isn't. It's about a new car coming in to an established class it does not belong in and running over everything in sight, regardless of brand.

The idea of "wait for them to get factored, wait for the AHFS to get them" just does not work. Everyone here knows how long it takes the AHFS to get around to a new combination and bring it in line. Sometimes it takes 5 years or more, and sometimes it just doesn't happen at all.

Yes, factory involvement can be good for the class, and for the sport in general. But not when a factory takes advantage of the situation and sends a ringer in to completely eliminate competition. It does not matter what factory. There was a time when sanctioning bodies did not tolerate or accept this behavior, and some still do not. However, some sanctioning bodies have been consumed by greed, and no longer have any real regard for the grass roots of the sport.

[Bruce Noland]

Guys,
These CJ's don't represent any great change in the way nhra is going to run their "show." This deal looks to be a cash'n carry deal. Sure nhra will publicize the CJ's but there will be little exposure for the rest of the category. Top Stock and Junior Stock are prime examples of what can happen to a class when the fast cars take over. It dies!

This CJ deal is different than finding out a killer car has slipped through the cracks of the ahfs. Currently, a killer car in any class may be 20 horsepower soft and prehaps nobody saw it coming until a racer looked at the sheets and said wow this looks good. More power to him/her. And usually there are only a couple of these killer cars sprinkled around the country and they are raced by blue collar sportsman racers. No, this CJ deal is about a car that can roll off the trailer and run below a very tough national record on it's first attempt at a serious test'n tune. This car is not 20 or even 30 horsepower soft. It is 80 to 100 horsepower soft. It is so soft that Ford won't produce any horsepower numbers in writing. They are marketing an ultra high tech, Injected/Supercharged car and don't want to produce a dyno sheet for nhra to see. Nobody should be able to walk into nhra and say well the car may be a little bit soft but the ahfs will correct the numbers. That would be a fraudulent proposition and should never be allowed. And these cars will run all over the country; with more of them coming out this fall. Like most of the racers on this site, I can't wait to see them run in person. Some of these CJ's have a great team owner who wants to run these cars all over the country and I'm darn happy to have him, but he needs to run his cars in the right classes. Running these Rockets against 40 year old cars just doesn't work and I think the public will figure that out as well. Ford and nhra will come away from this current deal with a lot of bad press. Obviously nhra and Ford can do pretty much what they want but both should be careful about what they are asking for because they may just get it.

From what we have learned so far, this car has been able to slip bye nhra's vetting process or nhra is going plug this car into regular classes without seriously studying it's performance. It's not a difficult excersise to put these cars into classes where they can be evaluated and yet still enjoy all the pleasures of class racing in Stock Eliminator.

[Billy Nees]

I have to get back into this to bring up a point that hasn't been made yet. I am the worlds worst businessman so maybe someone on here can enlighten me on this. Why would GM or Chrysler dare to jump into Stock with a new model when they are almost guarenteed to get their brains kicked in by the Cobra Jet? I have heard that the race Challengers aren't being built, is this correct? If so, why aren't they? Could it be that their SRT8 6.1 Hemi which is carrying a HP rating of 420 would look downright lame against a 4 valve supercharged car rated at 425 HP? To me, NOT building them looks like GOOD business sense! It seems smart to wait for the Hurst Challenger with the supercharged 6.1 to go against the CJs. The problem with that scenerio would be what can they rate the Hurst cars at when the rating on a base 6.1 is already 420? Maybe 425? I don't think that even Compton would buy that one! What about GM? Let's see, we can build a base 6.2 2008 Vette but it's at 430 HP! That's right, look it up, the BASE car is in the guide at 430 HP! I've raced some of the WORST combos in the guide (by choice) and I gotta tell you that even I wouldn't race a 2 valve, cam in block, naturally aspirated 376 ci motor against a 4 valve, overhead cam, blown, 330 ci motor. Where I'm going with this is I don't believe that Fords entry into Stock with this obviously WAY under rated CJ is going to help bring GM and Chrysler back into it. It's just not good business sense to go racing and get creamed!