Pontiacs

[oldskool]

I mentioned a few of the rare Pontiac powered Stock/SS cars I know of, in other Pontiac threads.

The Indy class win by Bob Michael, in his '77 Catalina Stocker, brought this back to mind. I've never seen or heard of another '77 Catalina Stocker.

Ever since their introduction, Firebirds have been raced. From '67 thru '74, there was always something unique about each year model.

Of course, the '67 was unique because it was the 1st Bird. Also the 1st year of the 400 engine, 1st Q-jet on a Pontiac V8(I think), & TH400 instead of the 2-speed Super Turbine 300 the Earlier GTO's used.

'68 was the 1st year of the Pontiac 350, including the 350HO. Also the 1st year of the Pontiac round port heads.

'69 was the 1st year of the Trans Am. 1st year of the famous RAIV engine.

'70 was the 1st year of the new 2nd gen body style. 1st year of the shaker hood & associated 2nd gen T/A trim. Also 1st year(I suppose the ONLY year) that a Chevy 12-bolt rear end was used in a Bird.

'71 was the 1st year a 455 was offered in a Bird. 1st year of the round port 455HO engine & the 8.5 corporate rear end.

Not a lot of change for '72. But, most of the '72 engines did not have the end exhaust manifold/header bolt holes. This was NOT a good thing.

'73 was the 1st year of the SD455 engine.

In '74, the Birds got what I think were called "Federal Bumpers". There have been lots of '74 Birds running Stock & SS.

For '75, they got turn signal/parking lights in the grill. Also was the 1st year of the "wrap-around" rear windshield. This is the oldest year model of which I've run across VERY few class cars. Right now, the ONLY one I can think of belongs to Ryan Warter, up in the Northwest. He won the Northwest nats with it, recently.

'76 was another unique year for Birds. The nose & tail were completely changed. The '70-'75 Formula twin-scoop hood would still fit. But, I've also seen a Formy hood on a '76, which looked more like the later '70's Formy hoods. This was the last year of the 455 engine. But it was only available in a Bird, with a 4-speed manual trans. So, I've never seen one, in class racer form. The only '76 Bird Stocker I've seen belonged to Mike Morgan. He won class at Indy with it, back in 2014. Kevin Love now owns it.

There were several changes for the '77-'78 Birds. Main one was the front end/nose/hood. Shape of the T/A shaker was changed. '77 was the last year of the Pontiac 350. '78 was the last year of the 400 engine with an auto trans. So, there have been LOTS of these models raced, thru the years.

'79 was the last year of the 400 Pontiac engine. But, it was only available with a 4-speed trans. So, I've never seen a '79 400 equipped Stocker.

The '80-'81 Birds had the 301 in turbo & non-turbo versions. Have never seen a non-turbo version Stocker. There have been several 301T Stockers that did very well.

So, of all these Bird models, the '75 & '76 are the models I've seen the least numbers of. So, I'll post pics here of only those 2.

[oldskool]

Here's a car I probably mentioned in the Pontiac SS thread. As far as I know, it's the only '67 Bird that has run SS, in quite a few years.

As far as I can remember, it's the only big-tire '67 SS Bird I've ever seen a pic of.

I've posted pics of some small tire '67 SS Birds from the early years. But can't remember another big tire '67.

This one belongs to Joel Larkin. It runs SS/IA. I suppose that in this time period you could call it a one-of-a-kind Bird.

[oldskool]

2 more rare Pontiacs are the 350 Pontiac powered '77 Bird, running SS, & a '74 350 powered GTO, running SS.

I only know of one of each. The '77 Bird was raced by Sal Piacentini. Mike Morgan bought it & has raced it for the last several years.

Of course, the SS GTO belongs to Bill Rink.

Both cars have won class at Indy. Mike has been RU to Bill, at least a couple of times. So, these 2 cars are both rare & quick.

In 2018, the Bird was quicker, qualifying @ #11, but Mike waited too long to leave & lost the SS/MA class win to Bill.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop

No, '77 Birds & '74 GTO's are not rare. But as 350 powered Super Stockers, they are indeed rare.

[oldskool]

Another Stock/SS car I consider rare is the '69 Bird. The recent debut of the Bruce Noland '69 T/A reminded me of this.

Other than the "New" T/A, the only other active '69 Birds I know of are the John Schloe Stocker & the Keri Angeles Pari SS Bird.

John once ran the RAIV engine, 'til he cracked a head. Has still run mid 10's with D-port heads. That's really good, especially considering the fact that NHRA gives the '69 D-port engine more hp than the nearly identical '68 400 engine.

That's probably the reason there are not any other '69 Birds running Stock. The only other one I know of that raced this century belonged to Kevin MacNicol. He changed it over to Super Street, several years back.

And of course, the SS Bird I mentioned was supposedly the 1st reg SS class Pontiac 400 car to get into the 9's. Did it back in 2000, with Keri driving. I assume the car was built by her Dad, John Angeles.

[oldskool]

I've mentioned that there have been a few 301 Turbo Birds that ran pretty good.

But, I only know of one 301 non-turbo Pontiac Stocker. It is a '79 Lemans. Belongs to Billy Nees. Don Himes drove it for a few years.

I'll have to class it as another one-of-a-kind Pontiac Stocker. There may have been others. If so, I'm not aware of it. Billy will know.

Some may not be aware that the 301 4-barrel engines came with an 800cfm Q-jet carb. From what I've read, the weak links in the 301 are the block & the crank. The 301T blocks & cranks are said to be stronger than the non turbo blocks/cranks. I've also read that most all '80 & '81 301 engines used a 301T block, even it was not turbo equipped. All the 301T parts are getting hard to find. So, a 301 is probably not a good engine to use for a new Stocker build.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by oldskool

The Indy class win by Bob Michael, in his '77 Catalina Stocker, brought this back to mind. I've never seen or heard of another '77 Catalina Stocker.
.

Ron Garey built a 77 Cat about 25 years ago. He runner-uped at a Div 4 points meet with it... He then went back to the Buicks.
We had a 77 Bonnie between 3 of my friends. No one ever got around to building it.
I tried to sell the roller here on C/R, cheap..Nobody ever responded. I ended up scrapping it.

[oldskool]

Yeah, I reckin some guys don't really think they're racin unless they drive some sort of Musclecar or at least something that is sorta sporty lookin.

Gotta admit that I don't particular like to see SOME of the cars on the track, which are racing today. It's not so much just the family sedan "grocery getter" type body styles. It's those really ugly compact type, "economy" cars that were REALLY slow & really ugly & the 1st ones to wear out & be junked, all over the country.

Not gonna mention any particular car or body style(except Pontiac), for fear of offending some non-Pontiac guy.

I actually don't think that '77 Catalina looks half bad, in race form. I actually like it better than the '77 Lemans body style. As many here know, he built one of those too. I think Dave Ribeiro has it now.

There have been several of those '77 Lemans Stockers that have done pretty good. The Kyle Riley "Who's Next" car comes to mind.

I remember back when the Pontiac A-body changed, from '72 over to the new style, in '73. I thought those '73's were about the ugliest Pontiac I'd ever seen. It's the rounded off tail section that looks bad, to me. I've always thought the '73 GTO was the ugliest ever made.

I like the Grand Am nose pretty good. IIRC, Don Elgin & Don Turk ran the GA nose. Carroll Warling has run both a GA & a Lemans nose on his record holding '74 SS car.

Tommy Brown runs a Lemans nose on his '74. There may be others I'm forgetting, or just don't know about.

The '73-'77 A-body I'd like to run is a '77 Can-Am. Don't remember ever seeing a pic of a serious Can-Am Stocker. As of right now, the '77 Bird is the only '77 body that takes a big hit from NHRA. So, that means that any '77 body should be more competitive than a Bird. But the Birds just LOOK so much better & faster.

Hey, as the old saying goes: "Looks ain't everything". Another saying is: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

[oldskool]

Every year when the US Nationals race comes around, I suppose it brings up thoughts & memories of past US Nats, for most class racers & their fans.

Those who have actually participated in one or more of the races will probably think back on things that happened to them in a particular year, or several years.

For those of us who have never been a participant or even attended an event, we might think back to what some of our favorite drivers or cars did, at one or more particular races.

Since I've never been, and ESPECIALLY because I'm a Pontiac Freek, I always think back on what Pontiac V8 powered cars have done, during the history of the big race.

This year has been no exception. I immediately think of my 1st Pontiac hero, Truman Fields & his '73 Stock win & '77 Class win.

Then I think of that '68 Bird that won in '73, winning again in '77, with Mike McKinney driving.

Next I think of '74 when Al Vanis won Stock, in a '74 Ventura & Rock Running won his class in a '74 GTO.

Next I usually think of Mick Leiferman who was Stock RU 3 years running in his '71 GTO record holder.

Then I think of my 2nd Pontiac hero, Jack Mullins, who won SS in '75, beating Miss Mighty Mopar, Judy Lilly, in the final.

Next I usually go back to the early years, remembering the early '60's Pontiacs that either won the race or at least their class. 2 of these drivers are always Lloyd & Carol Cox. I always think of Lloyd winning the A/FX class in '62 & Carol winning the S/SA class.

One Pontiac win that many younger folks may not even be aware of is the Top Dragster class, at the '62 Indy race. There was no Top Fuel class. These dragsters were the quickest cars in competition that year.

The final pitted famous dragster driver Don Garlits against a Mickey Thompson Pontiac powered dragster driven by Jack Chrisman.

The Pontiac powered dragster won the race ! I think that is a VERY big deal. I assume it is the ONLY Indy race a Pontiac powered dragster ever won. If I'm wrong, somebody can post the correct info.

https://bangshift.com/bangshift1320/...ine-dragsters/

I don't think there has been another Pontiac V8 powered win since '77, in Stock or SS. If I'm wrong. somebody please post the correct info.

But, there have been LOTS of Pontiac powered class wins. And, I know for sure there was at least one #1 qualifier in SS, when Ken Shawver did it, in his '78 T/A.

Would love to know of any other Pontiac V8 powered #1 qualifiers, if there were any. ???

[oldskool]

In other Pontiac threads I've mentioned the Pontiac powered GT Super Stock cars.

I think it has been established that Don Kennedy proposed most of the rules that were adopted for the GT class. They basically allow engines to be run in a body for which that engine was never an option.

Some common Pontiac examples would be running a Pontiac V8 in a 3rd or 4th gen Bird body, running a '70 or newer Pontiac V8 in a 1st gen Bird body, running a 428, 455, or other Pontiac V8 engine in a Pontiac body in which the engine was not an option, and running a Pontiac V8 in a Chevy body.

Not sure who actually had the very 1st Pontiac powered GT car. May have been Don Kennedy. Maybe somebody who knows for sure will chime in.

The most famous Pontiac GT car is probably the "Hatari" 4th gen Bird. Peter Biondo won SS championships with it. Also won his 1st one with a 3rd gen Hatari GT Bird.

Can't name all the Pontiac GT cars that have run. Besides Don Kennedy, I know that Carroll Warling had one, back when Don was running his 3rd gen.

I know that Billy Joe Moravitis ran one, tho I haven't been able to get all the details of that car, yet.

Steve Smith ran a strong 3rd gen, which I think we have established now belongs to Scott Burton.

Victor Santos ran a nice 3rd gen, which now belongs to Bill Kennedy, in div 1.

Greg Meyer has a real nice 3rd gen.

Leo Glasbrenner ran a nice 4th gen, for a few years, as did Johnny Duncan. The Duncan car is now raced by Sean Pickett & John Agnetta, with power by Phil Monteith.

Carroll Warling has a '74 GTO GT car. Larry Maxwell has a '68 Bird, running a '74 350 engine.

Lynn, Casey, & Stacy McCarty run a 3rd gen Bird & a small late model Pontiac of some sort, which I've forgotten.

Don Kennedy still runs a 428 powered Sunfire.

Then of course, there are at least 2 Cobalts running a 428 Pontiac engine. Both those cars have won class at Indy.

I'm sure there are quite a few others I either forgot or don't know about. Those who know of others are encouraged to post that info.

I've noticed that some regular SS Pontiacs have switched over to a GT class. I've read they do that so that their reg SS class combo won't get a hp hit, if they go a bit too quick.

For pics on this post, I'll just post one pic of each body style Pontiac GT, that I know of. As most know, there are minor variations between year models, in both 3rd & 4th gen Birds. But I'll only post pics of one 3rd gen & one 4th gen.

Thought of another one. Carroll Warling has been running his '74 Lemans in GT, with an iron head 428.

Also, I think Keri Angeles has been running her '69 Bird in GT, at least at some races.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Yeah, I reckin some guys don't really think they're racin unless they drive some sort of Musclecar or at least something that is sorta sporty lookin.

Some of those pics show how little most racers know about Pontiacs.
Neither The Worm's car or C Warling's are Grand Am bodies.

Pontiac V8 a corporate motor? Still waiting for someone to show where one was ever used in a Chevrolet body.

The Mullins motor was a stick only combination, yet we used to see them in GT automatic cars in Div. 4/

The 78 180 hp ' bird wasn't available with a stick, even though one set the L/Stock record ...never mind! ;-)