phoenix crash - Page 3

BobOrme · 02-26-2010, 09:38 PM

I would suggest that the track being on leased land shouldn't be an excuse for not updating the facility. The land that is home to Heartland Park Topeka is owned by the city of Topeka and leased to the track owner. That fact hasn't been cause for stagnation on improvements or allowing the facility to deteriorate.

I've read statements here and elsewhere claiming the tribe that owns the land under Firebird wants the track gone. If that is true, all they'd have to do is not renew the lease at its renewal date. If the lease renewal date is only one or two years away, and the track owner knows for certain that the lease will not be renewed by the land owner, that would explain a reluctance to invest very much money in the facility by the track owner. However, I suspect the lease is long term, and rumors are being used as excuses.

7423 · 02-26-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W J

Charlie, does the tribe own the track, and do you know if they built the facility, or is there a 3rd party involved in Firebird? Thanks. WJ

The Indians own the dirt, most of the workers are Indian, I believe he built the facility that includes a road race track, driving school and a lake for boat races. The grandstands on the drag strip came from OCIR.

herbjr · 02-27-2010, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W J

Sorry, but I surely disagree w/that. A racer deserves certain things when he pays the entry fee and decides to go and compete----ESPECIALLY for a National or Divisonal event. Poor track prep, very narrow grooves due to skimpy track prep, bumpy track, dips in track surface, etc. just don't cut it to be hosting ANY sanctioned event. You pay to belong to a sanctioning body---you deserve more. If things aren't safe, shut it down and make it safe, or finish it up someplace else that is. Then, dump that venue.....there are plenty of good tracks around the western/southwestern US that would love to host a NHRA event of this magnitude, this time of year, that know what it takes to run a SAFE, SMOOTHLY RUN event that could send the competetitors home saying that a poor track wasn't a factor----whether or not those racers went out in the 1st round, or went home a winner. It's about time for all racers to do what the ProStock teams did at Firebird last weekend after nothing was done to correct a ill-prepared, unsafe track----PACK UP AND LEAVE. Then maybe someone will start paying attention, because we all know, it's all about MONEY. If the racers start walking away from crappy venues, the circus owners will have NOTHING.....My sincere thoughts.....WJ

Your right but wrong again. I agree but you were there 7 days ago and the track was crap, pro stockers crashing, super street cars crashing, guy complaining about lifting at the 1000' mark. Is a 350. entry worth crashing a car. If you knew going in there were major track problems in the left lane, and you crashed in the left lane WHY WERE YOU THERE TO BEGIN WITH TO PUT YOURSELF IN THAT POSITION. I guess its worth taking a chance over a 350 entry vs crashing a car........dont think so.

W J · 02-27-2010, 09:23 AM

Wet weather and cold track temperatures have not helped matters at Firebird over the past couple of weeks for sure, but from what people are saying, the track really needs a re-grade and re-pave.....May not get done if his lease isn't re-newed. Just too bad 2 large events had to get fouled up because of it....Early 2010 inclement weather is taking its toll across the country, so we may see a few more big events screwed before the good weather arrives....WJ

Pat Cook · 02-27-2010, 10:21 AM

That's too bad,that is great spot for a drag strip and Phoenix certainly has the population base for national event racing. Leasing from the Indians is what killed Beeline dragway that and Rick Lynch

Jeff Lee · 02-27-2010, 10:25 AM

Yes the tribe has a lease agreement with Charlie Allen but I CAN SEE NO REASON THE TRIBE WOULD WANT THE TRACK GONE! Maybe I'm wrong but Firebird has to be a major draw for the casino, both with participants and spectators. And the Firebird billboard and proximity to I-10 makes it eye candy which brings people to the casino. A racer friend went to the casino yesterday and it was packed, including the restaurants and he noticed a LOT of racer t-shirts. And I'm sure casino management notices the same thing.

Also....don't forget, track prep is NHRA's responsibility on national events. Aside from that, I think the weather has a huge impact on these issues. As I stated before, we've had over a years worth of rain here in the first 2 months of the year!

63corvette · 02-27-2010, 11:02 AM

Track prep is the key.
I have friends who live in the Phoenix area and will not race there.
In 2007 I raced the National in SG and was #1 qualifier 9.901 at 160+MPH with a new car. I lost 3rd round and loaded the car and waited for the next weeks Division race.
I took the car out and in 3 time trials and first round the best et was 10.9 something due to the car getting loose when it came off the stop. I thought the car was broken. I tried everything I could think of and never made a full pass down the track. A few weeks later I went to Tuscon to the Division race there and the car was flawless and I made 4 rounds there.
That same year there was discussions of not having a National there if things were not upgraded. I think over that year is when they added the shutdown area paving out into the desert and additional return road. Since then I have not seen any changes.
I did not go out west this year due to scheduling and family issues. This is the first time I have missed the early races since retirement in 2001.
However I am not disappointed I skipped it this year.
Just My 2 Cents

Byron Worner · 02-27-2010, 11:16 AM

Rain is no reason for a track to be a piece of ****. I've been at Maple Grove and Englishtown where it has rained hard for two days straight and when it quit we raced with no issues. It comes down to the condition of the track surface and the way it is prepped. If there is lack of maintenance at the track, the track is bad. If there is skimping of the traction compound, like at Atco last fall for test and tune, the track is bad.

Jeff Lee · 02-27-2010, 01:12 PM

I just spoke to Don Kennedy. He's at the track for the divisional event. Firebird has prepped the track (NOT NHRA which preps the national events). Track personnel prepped the track and Don says it appears to be "killer" (as in good...)

And Bryon Worner is correct. Shouldn't fall back on the rain as an excuse. Other tracks get rained on all month long and they can still race when the rain stops.

So it will be interesting to see if Firebird works better with on-site personnel doing the work. Might see the smoking gun...

SGSCSG · 02-27-2010, 03:47 PM

http://www.nhra.com/story/2010/2/26/...stponed-again/

02-26-2010, 09:38 PM	#21
BobOrme Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 25 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: phoenix crash I would suggest that the track being on leased land shouldn't be an excuse for not updating the facility. The land that is home to Heartland Park Topeka is owned by the city of Topeka and leased to the track owner. That fact hasn't been cause for stagnation on improvements or allowing the facility to deteriorate. I've read statements here and elsewhere claiming the tribe that owns the land under Firebird wants the track gone. If that is true, all they'd have to do is not renew the lease at its renewal date. If the lease renewal date is only one or two years away, and the track owner knows for certain that the lease will not be renewed by the land owner, that would explain a reluctance to invest very much money in the facility by the track owner. However, I suspect the lease is long term, and rumors are being used as excuses.

02-27-2010, 09:23 AM	#24
W J Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Paxton, Massachusetts Posts: 638 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: phoenix crash Wet weather and cold track temperatures have not helped matters at Firebird over the past couple of weeks for sure, but from what people are saying, the track really needs a re-grade and re-pave.....May not get done if his lease isn't re-newed. Just too bad 2 large events had to get fouled up because of it....Early 2010 inclement weather is taking its toll across the country, so we may see a few more big events screwed before the good weather arrives....WJ

02-27-2010, 10:21 AM	#25
Pat Cook Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 175 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: phoenix crash That's too bad,that is great spot for a drag strip and Phoenix certainly has the population base for national event racing. Leasing from the Indians is what killed Beeline dragway that and Rick Lynch __________________ 67 Ford Fairlane F/SA 749

02-27-2010, 10:25 AM	#26
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: phoenix crash Yes the tribe has a lease agreement with Charlie Allen but I CAN SEE NO REASON THE TRIBE WOULD WANT THE TRACK GONE! Maybe I'm wrong but Firebird has to be a major draw for the casino, both with participants and spectators. And the Firebird billboard and proximity to I-10 makes it eye candy which brings people to the casino. A racer friend went to the casino yesterday and it was packed, including the restaurants and he noticed a LOT of racer t-shirts. And I'm sure casino management notices the same thing. Also....don't forget, track prep is NHRA's responsibility on national events. Aside from that, I think the weather has a huge impact on these issues. As I stated before, we've had over a years worth of rain here in the first 2 months of the year! __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX Last edited by Jeff Lee; 02-27-2010 at 01:05 PM.

02-27-2010, 11:02 AM	#27
63corvette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon, Tx Posts: 552 Likes: 128 Liked 357 Times in 103 Posts	Re: phoenix crash Track prep is the key. I have friends who live in the Phoenix area and will not race there. In 2007 I raced the National in SG and was #1 qualifier 9.901 at 160+MPH with a new car. I lost 3rd round and loaded the car and waited for the next weeks Division race. I took the car out and in 3 time trials and first round the best et was 10.9 something due to the car getting loose when it came off the stop. I thought the car was broken. I tried everything I could think of and never made a full pass down the track. A few weeks later I went to Tuscon to the Division race there and the car was flawless and I made 4 rounds there. That same year there was discussions of not having a National there if things were not upgraded. I think over that year is when they added the shutdown area paving out into the desert and additional return road. Since then I have not seen any changes. I did not go out west this year due to scheduling and family issues. This is the first time I have missed the early races since retirement in 2001. However I am not disappointed I skipped it this year. Just My 2 Cents

02-27-2010, 11:16 AM	#28
Byron Worner Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 229 Likes: 11 Liked 28 Times in 5 Posts	Re: phoenix crash Rain is no reason for a track to be a piece of ****. I've been at Maple Grove and Englishtown where it has rained hard for two days straight and when it quit we raced with no issues. It comes down to the condition of the track surface and the way it is prepped. If there is lack of maintenance at the track, the track is bad. If there is skimping of the traction compound, like at Atco last fall for test and tune, the track is bad.

02-27-2010, 01:12 PM	#29
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: phoenix crash I just spoke to Don Kennedy. He's at the track for the divisional event. Firebird has prepped the track (NOT NHRA which preps the national events). Track personnel prepped the track and Don says it appears to be "killer" (as in good...) And Bryon Worner is correct. Shouldn't fall back on the rain as an excuse. Other tracks get rained on all month long and they can still race when the rain stops. So it will be interesting to see if Firebird works better with on-site personnel doing the work. Might see the smoking gun... __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

02-27-2010, 03:47 PM	#30
SGSCSG Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 5 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: phoenix crash http://www.nhra.com/story/2010/2/26/...stponed-again/ Last edited by SGSCSG; 02-27-2010 at 03:53 PM.