S/SS - Lower the index -0.50 & run Pro ladder

[randy wilson]

if i knew fastest car won i would not quit, i would cocentrate on trying to go faster. and no we do not run as much as you guys on the national and divisional level. but once a year we go to one. set one record in nhra in 03 at ohio valley in ss/cs, but we run local at bethany mo.in a spec head class. if you think that is easy come over and try it. we have been 6.28 at 10.5 pounds and we are behind in performance to a car at 11.5 that has been 6.37. try that with an untouched brodix spec head on a 276. our web site is www.headsup-racing . com. we have bigger crowds than any local track usually.

[art leong]

Lowering the index's would be a great Idea. In a perfect world, Where nhra would uphold rules that are already in place, and not be wishy-washy. as soon as someone seeks legal advice.
But it's not a perfect world. And the index's are the only thing that separates the "mega racer" from the little guy.
For all you guys that hate the breakout so much. There is a partial solution. Build a car that fits in a large (heavily contested) class. This way the odds of a heads up run are much greater.
I have raced back when it was go fast. And liked every minute of it. But back then I truly believed that nhra was watching out for the little guy (back then maybe they were?). WE won some races lost a lot, Worked hard and gained a great amout of knowlege
With go fast racing in the present day. Somewill always "outspend" you or find a car on paper that will be able to give a bunch away at the starting line and get to the stripe first.
At the Class Nationals in Rockford Il. a few years back I had a bad plug wire. Ran on 3 cylinders. Still ran better than a second under. Got back home fixed the problem and ran better than 2 under spinning the tires. I'm not blowing my own horn because I'm sure others out there could have done what I did and maybe even quicker.
The breakout is necessary and without it the sport would be dead in 2 years.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by art leong

For all you guys that hate the breakout so much. There is a partial solution. Build a car that fits in a large (heavily contested) class. This way the odds of a heads up run are much greater.

The breakout is necessary and without it the sport would be dead in 2 years.

I'm in SS/JA, several in Div 4, where there are several fast ones, so I do have heads-up races. Love them, which ever way it turns out. GT/AA is another very popular class, there are others.

Dropping the SS indexes (I don't mean stock, I don't have a dog in that fight.) won't do away with break outs. Might stop some stockers from coming over and running way under. That alone shows the indexes are too soft to be meaningful. Those guys might be the biggest objectors about lowering the SS indexes, not being competitive in another eliminator. If one could still run under the SS index with them dropped 1/2 second, more power to them. The only reason for an SS car not being able to run more than 1/2 under would be wrong car, sombody doesn't know enough, or ain't tryin hard enough. Probably the latter.

[Dick Butler]

Moving the index .5 does not affect anything except the "appearance". It looks so common to run 1.0 under now that some are tired of it. There are not many who are not .5 or more under so it would not affect much.
Having Big classes like AH, GT/AA B/SA etc MAKES class racing important. Having fewer classes would condense the OTHER cars into bigger classes also. Then MORE racers, spectators and ...... could have the fun of the heads up part of S and SS. Everyone could still have the Bracket Mode eliminator to run on Sunday or at points meets but INDY and Nationals in general could become more competitive for the group that asks for Heads up racing to be more frequent.
Fewer classes does NOT affect cost to race, distance to the track or limit new racers. Everyone can still make eliminations at a Nationals by making the Qualifying list...Even the first year car. A lot of class losers ran elimination on Sunday at Indy I believe.

[Lyn Smith]

Didnt we try a Pro ladder in Stk and SS a couple of years ago ,and switch back. Please just one of you guys explain to me what lowering the Indexes is going to accomplish ??????????????

[Jim Rufiange]

Removing the break out would be refreshing. I understand the 'cost' theory to run fast, however, the hours I spent to squeeze another tenth out of the car are what it was about. Then being on the tree so as to not give that tenth away. Fans DO NOT show up for weekly bracket racing and that is what even most S/SS shows are. They show up for the races where if the win light comes on, that guy or gal got there first. They don't have to look at the dial-in and calculate who won or why they won. I just don't see the motivation anymore to build a fast car except for something like Indy. Even the 'experts', aka Fletcher and others skipped SS at Indy cause they have built cars that are great bracket cars but can't cut it heads up. Just the thoughts of an old, retired super stock racer.

[The Hawk]

One thing I`ve noticed when a topic like this is brought up,it`s always started by and supported by racers that it wouldn`t affect. "Sure,take off .050,bring it on,I can still go 1.00 under if I leaned on it a little bit." Well,there`s still racers out there there that don`t think this way,and all it would do is chase them and more away. I kept my mouth shut when the recent "Class Bump In" rule changed,but I was all for it. Why? Because so many people just kind of shrugged it off several years ago about the .050 under class win rule,because it only affected less than 20% of the Class Racers/Winners. When the new rule came out about Class Winners not automatically "Bumping In",it affected EVERYONE! Now it`s a whole new ordeal and it sucks! Just get used to the fact that the rules are always going to change at a whim,and no one will ever be happy.

[gymracer01]

I'm not trying to tell anyone what NHRA or any person should do, but passing along some thought and info. I have not raced NHRA since 1977. I was always interested and working with people racing Stockers since the mid 60s. I loved the Jr. Stockers and always will. My dream was to race a stocker and finally did a little in the 70s but didn't have the means to contunie. That was my problem, not NHRA or other racers. I never wanted anything changed so I could. Then in the 90s I got into Nostalgia racing and have had some success and lots of fun. No, it will never be the NHRA I love so much, but it does let an old man full fill some of his dreams. For the ones not familar with it, we race and qualify off an index, you run .001 under you lose or go to the bottom of the ladder. There are rules on engine types in body styles and years. Also carburetor and intake rules but not much else. It's not NHRA but it's not bracket either, as you pick a class before you make your first quailfing run and have to stick to it all weekend. But, if you know your car and can adjust for conditions and drive, you have just as good a chance as anyone when you leave home.
What I'm saying is there are other ways to race without messing up NHRA that so many love and support.
Jim Netherland
2007 NMCA Nostalgia Super Stock World Champion
B/NSS 67 Buick GS "Mad Torquer"

[bsa633]

..who would go to races whitout a chance of winning or even winning a round?Bob Shaw or someone like him would win alot before his current combo would be in line with others then he would just show up with a new one,it would sure change the type of cars running in stock,and without any real tech how would you actually do it,and how many would actually stay in the class if your Camaro was dead meat and you had to get a "fast" car,not a good looking one? In SS there would probably only be modified cars left since there are constantly improved parts to get in that area compared to regular classes.

What is stopping us from arrange classracing during the regular timetrials ourselves at races that dont have it?sure no extra money(if not the racers decide to put it up themselves) but fun racing and the bragging rights are still there..some Nationals will be hard ofcourse with only 2 hits...well ofcourse with AHFS as today no one would hang it out anyway but there is factored tracks and tracks with bad air where it could be done !

I am for lowering the indexes (and keeping the trigger or a wider spread than today) because i think its needed to see were all combos actually are flat out right now,to much storys about "a couple of hundred pounds in the trunk" and so on for the current "not so good" factoringsystem to wok!i If it would show that some are way ahead some "human power" would need to take care of that.

Qualifying from the indexes could be a good thing(exept for safteyreasons maybe)...why not try it?

Pro Ladder..not flipping coins...not for me...it's called sportsman racing..NOT Professional..i afraid changing the format would hurt these classes,,since it's still this popular it has to be somewhat right as it is!

[fred thibeault]

lower the index .5 pro ladder and fullout finals.