Mustang Ecoboost Stock Eliminator

[PJ305]

Originally Posted by Steve Stickel

Appears that NHRA adds the 2015 model to the guide for regular stock eliminator. 2.3L Turbo 310/ 264hp coupe @ 3375 fits I, J, K .

Should be interesting, some of these cars already are going mid 12's with a tune, tires, and exhaust....

It appears to be another Pat C. buddy job, not only did he lower the hp rating 46 he also lowered the shipping wt. from 3663 to 3375.

Looks like Jim Hale will have some stiff competition in K/SA at INDY.

[MR DERBY CITY]

Originally Posted by PJ305

It appears to be another Pat C. buddy job, not only did he lower the hp rating 46 he also lowered the shipping wt. from 3663 to 3375.

Looks like Jim Hale will have some stiff competition in K/SA at INDY.

Must have been a Steak and Lobster lunch to get this done. Don’t think Applebee’s or O Charley’s could have accomplished this. I don’t think Jim Hale will be running at INDY, just a hunch...

[Steve Stickel]

Originally Posted by PJ305

It appears to be another Pat C. buddy job, not only did he lower the hp rating 46 he also lowered the shipping wt. from 3663 to 3375.

Looks like Jim Hale will have some stiff competition in K/SA at INDY.

Posted by ALMACK
My guess is that whoever got that EB combo approved is already building one.

Reminds me of that 2017 Focus RS that got put into the classification guide recently and then one shows up at a Division event shortly thereafter

You are so right you can believe that this just didn't get added by the powers that be for no reason. __________________
James Williamson
W200 J/SA


Guys,, obviously the guide has some catching up to do , years ago, almost all the production cars were submitted. Now, since '08, it appears to be a pick and choose what gets in, determined by the manufactures' marketing plan ( FS), or some determined racers or groups of racers to submit a 17 digit car...Almost like you have to advocate for it, otherwise don't expect it automatically to appear in the guide as before.

The 15 Ecoboost was showroom available, sold 37,000 units and has a 17 digit vin. Deserves to be in the guide just like all the other missing GM, Ford and Mopar cars ignored since 2008. Can buy one retail now for 15K, add safety items, do what they do to make it fast, and have a new stylish race car for relatively cheap money. Isn't that what stock is supposed to be about? The racers and AHFS will have the HP where it has to be in no time lol...


Not saying there werent any, but the few 08 and up production cars that made it in the guide DO HAVE some skewed HP ratings, some low, some so high no one would build one, regardless of ship wt.
Lots to discuss but perhaps it deserves a new thread.

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by Steve Stickel

Buddy Job ? check some history here

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...light=minus+76



Originally Posted by ALMACK
My guess is that whoever got that EB combo approved is already building one.

Reminds me of that 2017 Focus RS that got put into the classification guide recently and then one shows up at a Division event shortly thereafter

You are so right you can believe that this just didn't get added by the powers that be for no reason. __________________
James Williamson
W200 J/SA


Guys,, obviously the guide has some catching up to do , years ago, almost all the production cars were submitted. Now, since '08, it appears to be a pick and choose what gets in, determined by the manufactures' marketing plan ( FS), or some determined racers or groups of racers to submit a 17 digit car...Almost like you have to advocate for it, otherwise don't expect it automatically to appear in the guide as before.

The 15 Ecoboost was showroom available, sold 37,000 units and has a 17 digit vin. Deserves to be in the guide just like all the other missing GM, Ford and Mopar cars ignored since 2008. Can buy one retail now for 15K, add safety items, do what they do to make it fast, and have a new stylish race car for relatively cheap money. Isn't that what stock is supposed to be about? The racers and AHFS will have the HP where it has to be in no time lol...


Not saying there werent any, but the few 08 and up production cars that made it in the guide DO HAVE some skewed HP ratings, some low, some so high no one would build one, regardless of ship wt.
Lots to discuss but perhaps it deserves a new thread.

I agree with your post ^^

I follow mostly Fords so I study the classification guide for those.

The OBD II cars ( 1996 and later) have very little appeal to racers looking for a new build due to their currently factored h.p.
Most are factored already at advertised net hp from the new product brochures. So there they sit never to be tried. What a shame....

In fact, none of the 1996 and newer ( "traditional" i.e. non FS) Ford Stockers in the guide have had a hp increase since 2003 ( as far back as my research took me) There are some running 7 to 8 tenths under index, but very few. And when I look at the qualifying sheets I see very few OBD II cars.

I see a lot more 1996-2007 model cars on used car lots and junk yards than 60's and 70's musclecars.

Will things still be the same 10 years from now ? Only 60's thru 80's cars running in Stock ?

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by PJ305

It appears to be another Pat C. buddy job, not only did he lower the hp rating 46 he also lowered the shipping wt. from 3663 to 3375.

Looks like Jim Hale will have some stiff competition in K/SA at INDY.

3375 lbs. is Cobra Jet wt. territory.

Take a CJ., change the front grille, add some fog lamps, and put a crate 2.3EB from Ford Racing in it and now you have a Cobra Jr. running 1.7 under.

I still predict one will show up at Indy dressed out like that ^^

[PJ305]

Originally Posted by ALMACK

3375 lbs. is Cobra Jet wt. territory.

Take a CJ., change the front grille, add some fog lamps, and put a crate 2.3EB from Ford Racing in it and now you have a Cobra Jr. running 1.7 under.

I still predict one will show up at Indy dressed out like that ^^

My point exactly, leave the shipping weight and HP alone and one should still be able to run 1.40 under. This is just a place for the guy that spent a fortune on a new Cobra Jet and can't compete with the big boys! This class should only be open to a vin number street car not Factory Cobra Jet race cars. Street legal race cars are not allowed to remove energy absorbing bumpers or shocks that add to their weight. If they want to run regular stock they must be regular stock not purpose built with special wt breaks!

[Jim Bailey]

" Elvis has left the building guys " ….Ya'll can forget about the old school vin number folklore ! If a Copo (Camaro) has been approved for Traditional Stock Eliminator, and a Drag Pak (Challenger) has been approved for Traditional Stock Eliminator, (with minor body panel changes), THEN why not a Cobra Jet. (Mustang) ... "Just saying" …

[Mike Delahanty]

Here’s the explanation behind the HP and weight figures that are in the NHRA Classification Guide for the 2015 Mustang EcoBoost.

First some background.

The engines that power new cars today make more HP per cubic inch than those of the 60’s, 70’s and 80s. The engine designs are optimized to get every possible MPG and HP in production form. Many of the race engine blueprint “tricks” that make power in an old Stock or SS engine have been incorporated into your street car. In addition, the advertised HP ratings from the manufacturers have gone up to reflect these performance improvements. As you can imagine, there’s not much HP improvement left to take advantage of when building a new Stocker or SSer. For a number of years, racers have wanted to build “new” stockers from production cars but the high HP ratings (and weight) discouraged them.

Last year at Indy, the drag racing reps from Ford. Chevy and Dodge met with NHRA to discuss this issue and seek a solution that would at least make it “reasonable” to build a new production Stocker that was competitive. After reviewing performance data from the new cars and examples of new cars in the guide it was agreed that the NHRA HP rating for the classification guide would start at 85% of the factory advertised HP. This took effect for any new car added to the guide from that point forward – like the 2015 Mustang EcoBoost that was recently added.

In addition to the HP discussion, weight was also addressed. There is upwards of 500+ pounds of wiring, emissions hardware and other content that can be legally removed from a new car when prepping it for Stock - and even more for SS. Again - with the objective of making it “reasonable” to build a competitive new car, it was agreed that the shipping weight would be 85% of the manufacturers advertising curb weight. This too took effect for all cars added after Indy 2017. BTW, finding “shipping weight” today is not like it was in the past.

It’s important that new production cars be part of Stock and SS – and not just the CJs, COPOs and Drag Paks. Please note there was no plan, “deals” or arrangements to rig the HP or weight to give the new cars an advantage. I was one of the reps in the meeting and I run a 1964 Stock Eliminator car.

One disclaimer – the above HP discussions did not touch on or address any of the HP ratings for the cars that compete in the Factory Stock or SS classes since these are not production level engines.

[ALMACK]

Originally Posted by Mike Delahanty

Here’s the explanation behind the HP and weight figures that are in the NHRA Classification Guide for the 2015 Mustang EcoBoost.

First some background.

The engines that power new cars today make more HP per cubic inch than those of the 60’s, 70’s and 80s. The engine designs are optimized to get every possible MPG and HP in production form. Many of the race engine blueprint “tricks” that make power in an old Stock or SS engine have been incorporated into your street car. In addition, the advertised HP ratings from the manufacturers have gone up to reflect these performance improvements. As you can imagine, there’s not much HP improvement left to take advantage of when building a new Stocker or SSer. For a number of years, racers have wanted to build “new” stockers from production cars but the high HP ratings (and weight) discouraged them.

Last year at Indy, the drag racing reps from Ford. Chevy and Dodge met with NHRA to discuss this issue and seek a solution that would at least make it “reasonable” to build a new production Stocker that was competitive. After reviewing performance data from the new cars and examples of new cars in the guide it was agreed that the NHRA HP rating for the classification guide would start at 85% of the factory advertised HP. This took effect for any new car added to the guide from that point forward – like the 2015 Mustang EcoBoost that was recently added.

In addition to the HP discussion, weight was also addressed. There is upwards of 500+ pounds of wiring, emissions hardware and other content that can be legally removed from a new car when prepping it for Stock - and even more for SS. Again - with the objective of making it “reasonable” to build a competitive new car, it was agreed that the shipping weight would be 85% of the manufacturers advertising curb weight. This too took effect for all cars added after Indy 2017. BTW, finding “shipping weight” today is not like it was in the past.

It’s important that new production cars be part of Stock and SS – and not just the CJs, COPOs and Drag Paks. Please note there was no plan, “deals” or arrangements to rig the HP or weight to give the new cars an advantage. I was one of the reps in the meeting and I run a 1964 Stock Eliminator car.

One disclaimer – the above HP discussions did not touch on or address any of the HP ratings for the cars that compete in the Factory Stock or SS classes since there are not production level engines.

Thanks for posting Mike.

Any chance someone at Ford could submit the specs to NHRA for the 2018 F-150 with the 5.0 V-8 ?

[nickh]

Alan would also like to see ecoboost f150. My son bought 2017 ecoboost 3.6 in sports mode it runs 14 flat and that is with fx4 option! And the 5.0 coyote motor is right there with it.