At what point do you need a DOT# and a CDL? - Page 3

D. Hake 4459 · 05-12-2016, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Blanchard

Jeff Teuton had some good information on this subject in another thread not too long ago. He referenced a section of the FMCA manual (Federal Motor Carrier something or other) that pertained to transporting personal property for other than commercial purposes. That thread dealt with the concerns mentioned here. It would be a good idea if you can find it in search. It was very informative from a person who knows. If you just try to figure it out on your own, chances are you will only get more confused.

A friend of mine just told me about this a few hours ago. I typed in DOT code 390 F 3 and it told about this. The way it was explained to him by some DPS and/or DOT people, as long as it's not a commercial vehicle and you don't have sponsors that pay you win or lose, you should be ok. If it's a privately owned vehicle (even if it's a 40' motor home and a 30' trailer) and it's a not for profit hobby under this provision it should be exempt. He said to keep a copy of the document with you.

D. Hake 4459 · 05-12-2016, 12:33 AM

I searched up the post that was referenced by Jeff Teuton. here it is. 03-07-2016, 09:35 PM #12
Jeff Teuton
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houma, LA
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Default Re: D.O.t. laws in Michigan?
390.3 applies. If your stuff is in your personal name, 390.3.f.3 I think it is in the DOT manual which exempts you from DOT. But length is still a state deal. You need to know and be prepared. You can race for money; specifically allowed in 390. And always remember you are not being paid to drive the rig. If your rig, pickup, whatever is in ABC Racing or some company name, you are DOT over 10,001 and subject to everything. Try this. Owner ABC Racing, Leased to Johnny Smith (personal). The end user is the responsible party.
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Rob Petrie E395 · 05-12-2016, 03:20 PM

Its actually 390.3 (F)(3) Question 21 under guidance. The very last sentence and what your local DMV. Secertary of State what have you. Has to say is the most important. MAKE SURE YOU READ THAT LAST SENTENCE. Like alot of FMC regs. Its the loophole in the noose that they will use to hang you.

Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.

05-12-2016, 12:33 AM	#22
D. Hake 4459 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Muskogee, Oklahoma Posts: 83 Likes: 56 Liked 2 Times in 1 Post	Re: At what point do you need a DOT# and a CDL? I searched up the post that was referenced by Jeff Teuton. here it is. 03-07-2016, 09:35 PM #12 Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,392 Default Re: D.O.t. laws in Michigan? 390.3 applies. If your stuff is in your personal name, 390.3.f.3 I think it is in the DOT manual which exempts you from DOT. But length is still a state deal. You need to know and be prepared. You can race for money; specifically allowed in 390. And always remember you are not being paid to drive the rig. If your rig, pickup, whatever is in ABC Racing or some company name, you are DOT over 10,001 and subject to everything. Try this. Owner ABC Racing, Leased to Johnny Smith (personal). The end user is the responsible party. __________________ Jeff Teuton 4022 STK Jeff Teuton is offline __________________ Derek Hake 4459 H/SA 69' Roadrunner

05-12-2016, 03:20 PM	#23
Rob Petrie E395 VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Woodlawn IL Posts: 1,093 Likes: 162 Liked 220 Times in 79 Posts	Re: At what point do you need a DOT# and a CDL? Its actually 390.3 (F)(3) Question 21 under guidance. The very last sentence and what your local DMV. Secertary of State what have you. Has to say is the most important. MAKE SURE YOU READ THAT LAST SENTENCE. Like alot of FMC regs. Its the loophole in the noose that they will use to hang you. Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the "occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise" apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events? Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject. Last edited by Rob Petrie E395; 05-12-2016 at 03:30 PM.