How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?

[Bob Pagano]

Nhra changed the rules, no more certain amt built. At the discretion of nhra.

[goinbroke2]

Originally Posted by david ring

If you are wondering how this can happen, just look at which vehicle is the official vehicle of the NHRA?

WAAAAH, WAAAAH, WAAAAH!!!
YOU WOULDN'T BE CRYING SO LOUD IF IT WAS GM THOUGH WOULD YOU!

I agree if it doesn't come from the factory, it shouldn't be in regular SuperStock. But to take pot shots at nhra and blame ford when nhra did the same things when gm was the flavour of the week (year after year) and there was no bitching is not only bias but blatently obvious favouritism.
I get it, lots on here are anti-ford. Fine.
This should be a "this isn't right"
Not a "waaah, I hate ford, they get special treatment"

The obvious question is, how does a crate motor fit into a SuperStocker?
Answer, in Modified or GT...actually, how does it fit in GT either when GT is regular SS motors in a newer/different body? This isn't a regular SS motor that has been moved to a different body, it was never a SS motor in the first place...hmmmm

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by goinbroke2

WAAAAH, WAAAAH, WAAAAH!!!
YOU WOULDN'T BE CRYING SO LOUD IF IT WAS GM THOUGH WOULD YOU!

B.S., no one is crying, they're stating plain facts. The cars are bogus, the factors are bogus, and the basic character and structure of the class was completely altered in order to make it happen, something that was NEVER done for GM. That ain't all that was done, either, several people who were friends of the Stock and Super Stock racers were run over by NHRA in order to make it happen.

When you can show us a GM car, and engine, that was NEVER produced for street use, and factored over 100 HP soft, then come back with your tired lame B.S. about everyone being upset just because it is Ford and Chrysler, instead of GM. That line of crap is a complete joke, not to mention a total farce and a fabrication.

For example, the ZL-1 Camaro, 69 units built, sold, and certified legal for street use, was removed from the guide, only in the past few years was it returned to the guide. The 67 Corvette L-88, 36 units sold and certified for street use, and several others produced and sent out the back door of GM as complete vehicles, was removed from the guide, and still has not been returned to the guide. Yeah, GM discouraged buyers from driving both of them on the street, but they were real, legal, federally certified vehicles, delivered from the factory, and legal to license and drive on the street as delivered. There hasn't been a Drag Pack Challenger yet certified for street use by Chrysler, never mind 36 of them. The fact is, a 67 L-88 Corvette is far closer to street legal and the original intent and character of NHRA Stock Eliminator than ANY of the new factory cars.

Yeah, go ahead, trot out the same lame tired tripe about the 98 LT-1 cars while you're at it. The fact is, the 98 F body cars were certified street legal, and so was the LT-1 engine. GM even had the LT-1 in the owner's manual of the 98 F body cars showing intent to produce. There's no competitive advantage to a 98 F body with an LT-1, they aren't a bit faster than a 97 F body with an LT-1. Try making that statement about the new factory bogus crate motor cars without lying. Good luck.

[Billy Nees]

Thanks Alan, you beat me to it!

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by billy nees

thanks alan, you beat me to it!

x2

[doug schriener]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

B.S., no one is crying, they're stating plain facts. The cars are bogus, the factors are bogus, and the basic character and structure of the class was completely altered in order to make it happen, something that was NEVER done for GM. That ain't all that was done, either, several people who were friends of the Stock and Super Stock racers were run over by NHRA in order to make it happen.

When you can show us a GM car, and engine, that was NEVER produced for street use, and factored over 100 HP soft, then come back with your tired lame B.S. about everyone being upset just because it is Ford and Chrysler, instead of GM. That line of crap is a complete joke, not to mention a total farce and a fabrication.

For example, the ZL-1 Camaro, 69 units built, sold, and certified legal for street use, was removed from the guide, only in the past few years was it returned to the guide. The 67 Corvette L-88, 36 units sold and certified for street use, and several others produced and sent out the back door of GM as complete vehicles, was removed from the guide, and still has not been returned to the guide. Yeah, GM discouraged buyers from driving both of them on the street, but they were real, legal, federally certified vehicles, delivered from the factory, and legal to license and drive on the street as delivered. There hasn't been a Drag Pack Challenger yet certified for street use by Chrysler, never mind 36 of them. The fact is, a 67 L-88 Corvette is far closer to street legal and the original intent and character of NHRA Stock Eliminator than ANY of the new factory cars.

Yeah, go ahead, trot out the same lame tired tripe about the 98 LT-1 cars while you're at it. The fact is, the 98 F body cars were certified street legal, and so was the LT-1 engine. GM even had the LT-1 in the owner's manual of the 98 F body cars showing intent to produce. There's no competitive advantage to a 98 F body with an LT-1, they aren't a bit faster than a 97 F body with an LT-1. Try making that statement about the new factory bogus crate motor cars without lying. Good luck.

A most excellent post.

[goinbroke2]

Well, you commented on the first two lines of the post, what about the remainder?

I agree it isn't right.

I was also directly replying to the post about "look who's the official veh"
THAT is crying, plain and simple. Making excuses about why you can't compete. It's not that it's FORD, it's that it is something that shouldn't be allowed.

You can debate the merits of something, that's fine, but when somebody throws in the gratuitous "that's because it's a XXX" it takes away from the real message or point.

I just grabbed an old rulebook for reference, SS/GT is "any production v-8 of the same make" OK, 428w would fit there.
Interestingly enough, for SS it doesn't specify engine, it only says "only those cars listed in the guide are eligible" and "all cars factory production assembled"
Well, if it was never "factory production assembled" (in other words, the 428W was never factory assembled in a car, technically it shouldn't be allowed)

It comes down to manufacturers asking and getting something for a better ROI. No more, no less. Of course any factory that did this is doing it their own best interest.(in other words can't fault mopar or ford)
The blame falls directly at the feet of NHRA for allowing this.

An example;
Like nascar, toyota want's to play in S/SS. So, they spend huge $$ building v-8 rwd corolla's just to stick in the guide. They are twin turbo/blah/blah/blah rated at 200hp.
Now, who's fault is it when bogus toyota's start cleaning house?

Toyota because they gave free ****box imports to everybody in the nhra?

Or NHRA because they whored themselves out to the highest bidder?

Think about it, THAT'S what I mean by crying and placing blame on the wrong party because they don't like said party.

[cutta]

Shouldn't the question be more about the underfactored part than anything? There aren't going to be many more high HP cars released from factory in a high rate of production so I think it would be senseless for us to argue that. With the gas consumption phenomena, its just not going to happen unless its a very low HP combo. Special order cars are probably the closest we will get to any of the muscle cars of yesteryear. I think the focus should remain with getting car factored more correctly.

On a side note, I see that none of the new ford guys wanted to show their full potential but it was obvious they knew how to use the brakes lol.



Oh yeah I've got a solution for fixing the fords and dodges. Somebody who passionately believes that the cars need be refactored should by a DP and a CJ. Tune them all the way up, go to a race and run them all the way out. After 3 or 4 events of that, things will be adjusted and you could sell the cars, problem solved lol! This way, you don't have to wait on NHRA to change it, you could just change it yourself lol! Now, you guys just need to pool the money and decide on a driver. Haha, this would make alot of people happy and alot of people mad but I would love to see it happen.

[david ring]

Originally Posted by goinbroke2

I was also directly replying to the post about "look who's the official veh"
THAT is crying, plain and simple. Think about it, THAT'S what I mean by crying and placing blame on the wrong party because they don't like said party.

Actually, I was making an observation-I might be wrong in my observation, but I wasn't crying. The motor in my comp car is out of a Colorado pick-up truck, but some of my closest friends in comp are sponsored by Varsity Ford and that dealership is sponsoring some of the new CJs. I love what the Bollmans do in comp with their Fords and oh yeah, I love the new CJ Erich has. Another one of my friends, Rich Rodgers, has a CJ. I like these new cars, and I know I'm going to get shot for saying this, the DP's too. I can't wait to see the new Camaros out there racing.

Again, I was making an observation-not complaining. That observation may be wrong and perhaps all NHRA is trying to do is get new cars into stock and help Ford and Chrysler sell some new cars. Heaven forbid that anyone should try to help the American car companies sell cars.

[CycloneFE]

I personally agree that the ratings on these cars are BS, NHRA should be able to control this. That has not happened. It shows what happens when you let someone else run your organization. The auto companies left us for many years and now they have returned. They have proven they can build a comparable car to the old muscle cars. They didn't need to lie about it.

I feel the big issue of the streetability lies in our "sue" happy society. They cannot afford to put one of these rockets onto the streets today or they will be in court in 24 hours for something. They do not want to hear the environmentalists start crawling down their throats either.

They have given us a taste of the old, I just wish it was on the up and up.

My .02