Towing In North Carolina - Page 2

Mike Crutchfield · 09-17-2009, 08:45 AM

The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations manual under 390.3(f)(3)
Exceptions. The occasional transporation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in furtherance of a commercial enterprise;

Further research will find this.
Question 21;
Does the exemption in 390.39(f)(3) for the occasional transportation of personal property by individules not for compensation nor in furtherance of commercial enterprise apply to persons who occasionally use CMV's to transport cars, boats,horses, ect., to race, tournaments shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Guidance:
The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided; (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes,and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and where relevant;(2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.

Hope this helps you.

Mike

63corvette · 09-17-2009, 09:26 AM

Kirk, I live in Texas and have recently went through the license procedure for my tow rig.
I have a diesel pusher motorhome with a 33,000 GVW.
When I asked the question of the license division when I bought the motorhome I was told I just needed a Class C. That was in 2001. After discussions on here and with other racers I found I needed the Class B.
After taking the written and driving test in July of 09 which included parallel parking a 40 ft motorhome, I now have a Class B Texas license which allows me to drive the motorhome legally pulling a trailer of less than 10,000 in weight.
The license dept told me I was not required to carry a log book as my license was not a CDL and CDL drivers were the only ones required to have the log books.
It seems you get a different story from everyone you talk to.
I have not been stopped yet and have been pulling the rig for 8 years and 85,000 miles now, but I do expect it at some point. I just hope I do not get one of those a hole officers.
My 2 Cents

Jeff Teuton · 09-17-2009, 10:30 AM

If your truck is titled in a company name, ABC Inc. or AABC RAcing, you are subject to DOT regulations that start at 10000 lbs. If the truck is in your name personally, the approach I would use is the 390 exemption that exempts a vehicle that normally would be a regulated vehicle for personal use. North Carolina has become the absolute worst in the nation. Steve Earwood of Rockingham fame is fight ing the battle as is the North Carolina Motorsports Assoication. On the NC website, they cite the 390 exemption, but the field people don't know about it. If you want to call me I can write the letter for you. My cell is 985-804-6161.

John Warehime · 09-17-2009, 11:06 AM

Get a lighter trailer, or stay out of NC.LOL, No really... I have a copy of the federal DOT laws that I carry. Federal law always trumps state law, however, any areas not clearly defined by the feds, are fair game for states. Anytime a NC state trooper gets you( a Yankee LOL!!) to over react, he can arrest your ***, and then you have a real moneymaker for the state (fines, legal fees, etc.). Remember your lawer is the cop's Brother-in-law.LOL. More revenue generating BS. See you at Atco.

Bernie Cunningham · 09-17-2009, 11:42 AM

Hey Jeff,
can you supply a link for that 390 exemption so we can print it out.
Thx.

Mike Crutchfield · 09-17-2009, 01:09 PM

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...0163348002325f

question 21

BlueOval Ralph · 09-17-2009, 03:01 PM

Only on Federal Funded Highway Interstate or US Highways not on State Roads

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Warehime

Get a lighter trailer, or stay out of NC.LOL, No really... I have a copy of the federal DOT laws that I carry. Federal law always trumps state law, however, any areas not clearly defined by the feds, are fair game for states. Anytime a NC state trooper gets you( a Yankee LOL!!) to over react, he can arrest your ***, and then you have a real moneymaker for the state (fines, legal fees, etc.). Remember your lawer is the cop's Brother-in-law.LOL. More revenue generating BS. See you at Atco.

chevy620 · 09-17-2009, 03:45 PM

I researched this about as much as I could for an article I wrote for www.dragracingonline.com a couple years ago.

Several things remain the same and some change minute to minute, depending on enforcement officer.

1. Weight is important but more so if you deduct the vehicles or the racing expenses from you Federal or STate taxes, that defines you as a commercial enterprise. You are "not for hire" but you would be commercial.
2. All states are short on funding and you can COUNT ON ONE THING, better enforcement to drive up revenues to save the enforcement officer's job.
3. The bottom line is actually this:

be courteous if stopped.
don't tell them what you have, let them tell you first.
Ask what you can do to be in compliance.
I will tell them I race for money, not profit. I cannot predict if a trip is going to net any revenue until it is over. If it does make money, I claim that money on my taxes.
Personally, I tow with a regular diesel pusher motor home and have a 26' stacker. Coach is 29,000 lbs and trailer is about 15,000 lbs. Length is 72'. I have a Class A CDL with air brake endorsement and a copy of my DOT physical with my log book.
I keep a very accurate log book, I carry the FMCSA Code Book (avaialble at any big truck stop), do my Pre-Trip inspections and log them in, carry the required spare fuses, emergency equipment any DOT / Commercial driver must have.
If you look like you are making an effort to be compliant without in most cases you might get a warning. I got a THANK YOU in Missouri from a Trooper who said I was the first one he had stopped that year who actually had a log book and Pre-Trip records. He just told me to have a safe trip. He also liked "that thing" I was using behind my motor home, the Trailer Toad.

To ignore this problem is foolish but to try to become an over-the-road trucker as a weekend racer is absurd as well. Just meet them half-way and don't be a smart-a**. Most of those guys are OK, they have a tough job and if it looks like you are trying to be safe they will appreciate that.
If half of your lights are out, the tires look like crap, your safety chains are held on with wire ties and everything looks worn out.........expect to be checked. Their job includes protecting other people from your negligence.

I will try to get a link to my article up here later today so you have some information to think about.

You can expect more inspections with budget cuts. The guys with the toter homes and big white trucks with semi-truck type axle ratings, air brakes on the trailer, etc can expect to meet Federal DOT regulations very soon. It won;t matter if it is registered as a motor home according to DOT officials I interviewed. They will look at the axle weight rattings, tire weight limits, air brake endorsements on your CDL (you have one right?) and log book accuracy.

Regular motor homes will fly under the radar a little better, the AARP lobby for retired motor home owners is a strong force keeping motor homes away from the hassles. Even though I have to agree, an 80 year old at the wheel of a 40,000 lb Prevost does SCARE THE HE** OUT OF ME!!

Good luck and tow safe.

Jok Nicholson

Tom Moock · 09-17-2009, 05:48 PM

John Warehime, Federal laws don`t trump state laws when get pulled over by the state DOT officer,that your in at time, I have been driving a big truck for over 30 years. In Nebraska if your toterhome and trailer is over 65 feet total, you need to license it with commercial plates and have a CDL license. Tom

chris3racing · 09-17-2009, 08:31 PM

Okay let me give this a try with out all of the legal wording. North Carolina Motorsports Association worked to get House Bill -69 throught the North Carolina State General Assembly which modifies North Carolina GS-20-116. A vehicle may use any roads when in connection with motor sport competition including a cab or other motorized vehicle with or without sleeping quarters and an attached enclosed specialty trailer to to exceed 90 feet in length. Vehicle may operate on the roadways when either going to or from a competition event, going for fuel or maintenance or other travel related to motorsports competiton. Not a lawyer and this is the short version.

Steve Earwood and the members of the North Carolina Motorsports Association were involved in composing this bill. Won't help much if the troopers feels the need to give you a hard time. I had heard there was a trooper in the Greensboro area who just apparently does not like racers.

09-17-2009, 08:45 AM	#11
Mike Crutchfield Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 84 Likes: 3 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Towing In North Carolina The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations manual under 390.3(f)(3) Exceptions. The occasional transporation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in furtherance of a commercial enterprise; Further research will find this. Question 21; Does the exemption in 390.39(f)(3) for the occasional transportation of personal property by individules not for compensation nor in furtherance of commercial enterprise apply to persons who occasionally use CMV's to transport cars, boats,horses, ect., to race, tournaments shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events? Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided; (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes,and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and where relevant;(2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject. Hope this helps you. Mike

09-17-2009, 09:26 AM	#12
63corvette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canyon, Tx Posts: 538 Likes: 120 Liked 297 Times in 90 Posts	Re: Towing In North Carolina Kirk, I live in Texas and have recently went through the license procedure for my tow rig. I have a diesel pusher motorhome with a 33,000 GVW. When I asked the question of the license division when I bought the motorhome I was told I just needed a Class C. That was in 2001. After discussions on here and with other racers I found I needed the Class B. After taking the written and driving test in July of 09 which included parallel parking a 40 ft motorhome, I now have a Class B Texas license which allows me to drive the motorhome legally pulling a trailer of less than 10,000 in weight. The license dept told me I was not required to carry a log book as my license was not a CDL and CDL drivers were the only ones required to have the log books. It seems you get a different story from everyone you talk to. I have not been stopped yet and have been pulling the rig for 8 years and 85,000 miles now, but I do expect it at some point. I just hope I do not get one of those a hole officers. My 2 Cents

09-17-2009, 10:30 AM	#13
Jeff Teuton VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Houma, LA Posts: 2,717 Likes: 2 Liked 326 Times in 50 Posts	Re: Towing In North Carolina If your truck is titled in a company name, ABC Inc. or AABC RAcing, you are subject to DOT regulations that start at 10000 lbs. If the truck is in your name personally, the approach I would use is the 390 exemption that exempts a vehicle that normally would be a regulated vehicle for personal use. North Carolina has become the absolute worst in the nation. Steve Earwood of Rockingham fame is fight ing the battle as is the North Carolina Motorsports Assoication. On the NC website, they cite the 390 exemption, but the field people don't know about it. If you want to call me I can write the letter for you. My cell is 985-804-6161. __________________ Jeff Teuton 4022 STK

09-17-2009, 11:06 AM	#14
John Warehime Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 291 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 1 Post	Re: Towing In North Carolina Get a lighter trailer, or stay out of NC.LOL, No really... I have a copy of the federal DOT laws that I carry. Federal law always trumps state law, however, any areas not clearly defined by the feds, are fair game for states. Anytime a NC state trooper gets you( a Yankee LOL!!) to over react, he can arrest your ***, and then you have a real moneymaker for the state (fines, legal fees, etc.). Remember your lawer is the cop's Brother-in-law.LOL. More revenue generating BS. See you at Atco.

09-17-2009, 11:42 AM	#15
Bernie Cunningham Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 558 Likes: 24 Liked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Re: Towing In North Carolina Hey Jeff, can you supply a link for that 390 exemption so we can print it out. Thx. __________________ Bernie Cunningham 7053 STK

09-17-2009, 01:09 PM	#16
Mike Crutchfield Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 84 Likes: 3 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Towing In North Carolina http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...0163348002325f question 21 Last edited by Mike Crutchfield; 09-17-2009 at 01:15 PM.

09-17-2009, 03:45 PM	#18
chevy620 Banned Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 188 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Towing In North Carolina I researched this about as much as I could for an article I wrote for www.dragracingonline.com a couple years ago. Several things remain the same and some change minute to minute, depending on enforcement officer. 1. Weight is important but more so if you deduct the vehicles or the racing expenses from you Federal or STate taxes, that defines you as a commercial enterprise. You are "not for hire" but you would be commercial. 2. All states are short on funding and you can COUNT ON ONE THING, better enforcement to drive up revenues to save the enforcement officer's job. 3. The bottom line is actually this: be courteous if stopped. don't tell them what you have, let them tell you first. Ask what you can do to be in compliance. I will tell them I race for money, not profit. I cannot predict if a trip is going to net any revenue until it is over. If it does make money, I claim that money on my taxes. Personally, I tow with a regular diesel pusher motor home and have a 26' stacker. Coach is 29,000 lbs and trailer is about 15,000 lbs. Length is 72'. I have a Class A CDL with air brake endorsement and a copy of my DOT physical with my log book. I keep a very accurate log book, I carry the FMCSA Code Book (avaialble at any big truck stop), do my Pre-Trip inspections and log them in, carry the required spare fuses, emergency equipment any DOT / Commercial driver must have. If you look like you are making an effort to be compliant without in most cases you might get a warning. I got a THANK YOU in Missouri from a Trooper who said I was the first one he had stopped that year who actually had a log book and Pre-Trip records. He just told me to have a safe trip. He also liked "that thing" I was using behind my motor home, the Trailer Toad. To ignore this problem is foolish but to try to become an over-the-road trucker as a weekend racer is absurd as well. Just meet them half-way and don't be a smart-a. Most of those guys are OK, they have a tough job and if it looks like you are trying to be safe they will appreciate that. If half of your lights are out, the tires look like crap, your safety chains are held on with wire ties and everything looks worn out.........expect to be checked. Their job includes protecting other people from your negligence. I will try to get a link to my article up here later today so you have some information to think about. You can expect more inspections with budget cuts. The guys with the toter homes and big white trucks with semi-truck type axle ratings, air brakes on the trailer, etc can expect to meet Federal DOT regulations very soon. It won;t matter if it is registered as a motor home according to DOT officials I interviewed. They will look at the axle weight rattings, tire weight limits, air brake endorsements on your CDL (you have one right?) and log book accuracy. Regular motor homes will fly under the radar a little better, the AARP lobby for retired motor home owners is a strong force keeping motor homes away from the hassles. Even though I have to agree, an 80 year old at the wheel of a 40,000 lb Prevost does SCARE THE HE OUT OF ME!! Good luck and tow safe. Jok Nicholson

09-17-2009, 05:48 PM	#19
Tom Moock Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 801 Likes: 1 Liked 10 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Towing In North Carolina John Warehime, Federal laws don`t trump state laws when get pulled over by the state DOT officer,that your in at time, I have been driving a big truck for over 30 years. In Nebraska if your toterhome and trailer is over 65 feet total, you need to license it with commercial plates and have a CDL license. Tom __________________ Tom Moock 5704 STK

09-17-2009, 08:31 PM	#20
chris3racing Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 528 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Towing In North Carolina Okay let me give this a try with out all of the legal wording. North Carolina Motorsports Association worked to get House Bill -69 throught the North Carolina State General Assembly which modifies North Carolina GS-20-116. A vehicle may use any roads when in connection with motor sport competition including a cab or other motorized vehicle with or without sleeping quarters and an attached enclosed specialty trailer to to exceed 90 feet in length. Vehicle may operate on the roadways when either going to or from a competition event, going for fuel or maintenance or other travel related to motorsports competiton. Not a lawyer and this is the short version. Steve Earwood and the members of the North Carolina Motorsports Association were involved in composing this bill. Won't help much if the troopers feels the need to give you a hard time. I had heard there was a trooper in the Greensboro area who just apparently does not like racers.