Oil starvation issues SBC HELP?

[joespanova]

The pan is an older Moroso Ultimate 2..........steel pan . they stopped producing them in the early to mid ninties?
The oil is a 30 weight Brad Penn breakin oil as of right now.
Maybe a vac pump issue..........
The oil clearances are what the rod manufacturer ( GRP ) suggests.......who am I to argue? I could certainly look at that though........why aluminum? Because that was better suited to what I'm doing IMO.
6 quarts plus filter total as of now. Have run 5 plus filter..........same result.
I think a wet sump is a PITA right now.

[rod butcher]

It may be your hurting the motor after the finish line? I run a 3qt. accusump on my bracket stuff after a few rod failures. Never had a problem since.

[carl hinkson]

Originally Posted by ss3011

Is the plug installed in the block, under the rear main cap , that sends oil to the filter ? If missing it will bypass the filter, and may cause contaminated oil to ruin the bearings . Don't know if the Dart blocks are machined like a production Chevy block, but when I bought a couple of factory blocks that plug was missing .

Dart blocks do not oil like OEM blocks no plug under rear main cap ...............

[carl hinkson]

Originally Posted by joespanova

The pan is an older Moroso Ultimate 2..........steel pan . they stopped producing them in the early to mid ninties?
The oil is a 30 weight Brad Penn breakin oil as of right now.
Maybe a vac pump issue..........
The oil clearances are what the rod manufacturer ( GRP ) suggests.......who am I to argue? I could certainly look at that though........why aluminum? Because that was better suited to what I'm doing IMO.
6 quarts plus filter total as of now. Have run 5 plus filter..........same result.
I think a wet sump is a PITA right now.

Maybe there is a reason they stopped making the pan !!! What are they using for a windage tray?

Aluminum rods have a very short cycle life compared to a good steel rod. There is a lot of mass swinging around there which does not help windage issues.

Sounds like a windage issue!! How much vacuum are you pulling. If your using cam bearing with 3 holes there is a serious bleed off issues along with you don't have a clue what your lifter bore clearance is which could be bleeding off to much oil and dumping it on the crank.

Go to dry sump problem solved!!

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by carl hinkson

Maybe there is a reason they stopped making the pan !!! What are they using for a windage tray?

Aluminum rods have a very short cycle life compared to a good steel rod. There is a lot of mass swinging around there which does not help windage issues.

Sounds like a windage issue!! How much vacuum are you pulling. If your using cam bearing with 3 holes there is a serious bleed off issues along with you don't have a clue what your lifter bore clearance is which could be bleeding off to much oil and dumping it on the crank.

Go to dry sump problem solved!!

Carl...a boatload of Super Stock racers have the wet sump figured out.
Send me the money for a dry sump setup , I'll install it and put "thanks CNC blocks" on the quarter panel.

[Ed Wright]

I agree with Mr Hinkson (big surprise) I have plugged the filter bypass in my oil filter mount since the 1970s. I use only the NAPA 1061 filter as well.

Anytime your aluminum Rod is black at the rod bearing, that is what killed the rod. Bearing or oiling.
I don't understand you using them. They will not make you run one bit faster. Manley, or Carrilo steel rods will handle anything you are doing. Don't have to replace them nearly as often either. Run aluminum rods too long and they just break bask me how I know. LOL Back in the '60s & '70s we all ran them in our Modified Eliminator cars. Ran a set of BRCs too long, kicked one out in the final round of a div 4 points race. Broke right in the middle of the beam. Good steel rods would not have done that.
Still has to be built correctly.

[carl hinkson]

Originally Posted by joespanova

Carl...a boatload of Super Stock racers have the wet sump figured out.
Send me the money for a dry sump setup , I'll install it and put "thanks CNC blocks" on the quarter panel.

There sure not running your combo thats for sure !!! This engine is surely something I would not spec out.

Do you think the super stock builders would put lifters in block without knowing what the lifter bore clearance is ???

I see alot of bleed off issues with cam bearings, rod clearance, lifter bore clearance ETC.

Using a pan that has been discontinued back in the 90's might be a good indicator something is not right with that pan. There are some good pans out there but they cost money !!!!

Alot of good advise here from others on your build but you don't seem to listen to any of us.

[Mike Taylor 3601]

Is pressure good at idle then drops at RPM or going down track? if so check distance between pick up and pan 3/8-1/2, any more or less can cause cavitation and pressure will drop when revved or down track.
I used alot of those UltimateII pans never had problem with them.
Had customer with motown small block that would drop pressure when revved up and down track we made changes tried restrictors to cam bearings I double checked clearances etc. for him, he had melling select pump with 3/4 pick up tube he tried two of them same thing, I then remembered selling one to round track customer and them having same problem,so we put 5/8 pickup melling select pump in fixed it , later talking to melling they said probably was more of windage issue and smaller pickup was'nt effected as bad.
I just stay with 5/8 pick up though now.
Carl and Ed may have hit nail on head with windage
Mike Taylor

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by carl hinkson

Alot of good advise here from others on your build but you don't seem to listen to any of us.

Carl , don't give me that s-h-i-t. I'm listening to everyone..........including you. You share your suggestions and I ask more questions..................stop being so thin skinned.
If the solution is a new pan , pump...........WHATEVER ...............NO PROBLEM. The current rod alloys are years better than what guys ran in the seventies.........call GRP etc etc. There are plenty of guys using them. I'm not going to run steel rods as of today. Maybe some other day......but not now.
The side clearance , bearing clearance , 3 hole cam bearings and all this other stuff...........these are what the manufactures call for. I am sure ( or at least I doubt it ) the lifter to bore clearance in itself isn't causing this issue. Its a combination of pan design , vac , baffles etc etc.
Here's what I'd like..........I want several hard running Super Stock guys to chime in and share their pan , pump , baffle / tray and vac pump combos'.The solution is apparently in finding the combination of THESE elements.

[carl hinkson]

Originally Posted by joespanova

Carl , don't give me that s-h-i-t. I'm listening to everyone..........including you. You share your suggestions and I ask more questions..................stop being so thin skinned.
If the solution is a new pan , pump...........WHATEVER ...............NO PROBLEM. The current rod alloys are years better than what guys ran in the seventies.........call GRP etc etc. There are plenty of guys using them. I'm not going to run steel rods as of today. Maybe some other day......but not now.
The side clearance , bearing clearance , 3 hole cam bearings and all this other stuff...........these are what the manufactures call for. I am sure ( or at least I doubt it ) the lifter to bore clearance in itself isn't causing this issue. Its a combination of pan design , vac , baffles etc etc.
Here's what I'd like..........I want several hard running Super Stock guys to chime in and share their pan , pump , baffle / tray and vac pump combos'.The solution is apparently in finding the combination of THESE elements.

The 3 hole cam bearing is a real bad deal I don't care what they call for thats why I don't use those cam bearings and thats why I am not having the problems you are having.

Once again try a pan that was not build in the 90"s and having those bulky rods in there do create alot of unwanted areation and windage.

I build quite a few blower engines with aluminum rods and are great for those applications as they are 8 shock absorbers and do save cranks for breaking. And there is a short cycle life compared to steel rods!!!

I don't use cam bearings with 3 holes!!!! Prime your engine with the intake off and tell there is not a lot of bleed off now with the oil 200 degrees imagine how much more is bleeding off.

There is alot going on with bleed off that maybe causing your problem.

A nice pan with a kick out would be a good choice but I doubt you would spend the extra money on a real good pan.

When your turning over 7000 RPM you really have to have to know what your doing when it comes to oil control Bleed off and windage.