More Legends of Drag Racing

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Tom Goldman

Bill, you hit on the Gasser thing right on the money.
An Uncle who just recently passed away, was a major influence in my life.
He ran a 50' Olds club coupe in C/Gas and C/A in the mid to late 60's.. My first lesson in automatics was rebuilding Dual range Hydros for his race car.
Some of the early Hydros from military applications evedently had even lower 1st gear ratios than the passenger car version cause I remember we put one in his car and the thing just stood straight up on those old 10" slicks! .....Having a nearly 180# rear push bumper helped.
The early exposure to those cars influenced my building my '40 Willys in the early '80's.
That car was my passport to meeting some of the great drivers and tuners of our sport.
Racers such as Don Garlets, Dale Armstrong,Eddie Hill, Fuzzy Carter,Frank Bradley,Kenny Bernstein,and even John Force actually sought out my car in the sportsman pits........Many of the Gasser greats came by to see the car and the most frequently asked question was how it handled with the front end down on the ground as opposed to sky high as their cars were.
It seems that near the end of the Gasser era, as tire and suspension technology were advancing, many of them found it was no longer practical to have the nose high in the air.
As strange as it seems, many of the cars ,particulary the Willys coupes experienced evil handling problems in the traps......Over the years many of the early racers told me the same thing.
One racer, Bob Scheffler,who along with his brother built fiberglass Willys bodies and raced in A/G ,came by at the Keystone nats in '86or '87 and asked me how the car handled at high speed being so low. .....I told him it was a little skatey in the lights . ...He showed me a picture of a car they built around 1969 or '70. ....It was nearly as low as my car in the front! .........He told me that the car actualy flew in the lights at Pittsburg,and was destroyed, the rear end of the car actually lifted off the ground !
It turns out that the beautiful slope of the Willys roof and deck lid make a very efficent wing creating lift, not downforce when the car was at the proper angle! ......Apperantly the only thing keeping my car on the ground was the fact ,I had not yet reached the proper speed!
The Gassers were probably ,in my opinion the greatest race cars to ever see the strip, un equaled even by the early years of Funny Car.

Thanks, Tom, for that really interesting note!

I had never heard the theory about the Wiilys's deck lid aerodynamics, nose-down attitude, and rear-end "lift," but it makes all kinds of sense, when you think about it. Maybe a good thing that your car wasn't a little faster! LOL!

DualRange Hydros had a 3.81 first gear in the generic transmissions,but in the last year this transmission was used in passenger cars, strangely, the '56 Pontiacs that had that transmission utilized a 1.55 front planetary instead if the time-honored 1.45, which accomplished a couple of things: Since the power flows from the crank flange, through the torus cover, into the transmission and through the front planetary unit BEFORE it goes forward to the fluid coupling, it both raises the stall speed AND produces a deeper first gear (about 7-percent) of 4.07:1. Maybe that's what that tail-dragging Gasser had???? The '56 Pontiacs also had a needle-bearing pilot bearing in the back of the crank to support the input shaft... the only such application of that, that I ever saw on a hydro.

I have no experience with military hardware, but I know that the G.M.C. six-by's had a modified Dual Range Hydro with a built-in "LOW RANGE" on the bottom of the case. But, I digress...

My point of all that verbiage was to point out that the whole drivetrain thing (as regards the slide into Funny Cars,) was a study in evolution, with the Gassers leading the way. Before Pitman-Edwards showed the way, you couldn't FIND an automatic on a drag strip.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who remembers that.

[Rich Erickson]

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

Purpose built Gassers could have a 10% engine setback.
Altereds 25%

Or at least that is how I recall the rules! I could be wrong though as I did not race either of those 2 types of cars


Supercharged cars ran in Super Eliminator and included anything with a blower on it if I recall right.

Street eliminator was for /MP's and gas coupes and sedans and the sports classes.

If you showed up at your local track with any car and had simply removed the front bumper.....you were put into a Gas class.

If you had a non stock carburetor on it...you were put in /MP

There was 2 distinct sections of the pits where I raced. One was for all the self starting cars and the other was for any that needed to be push started. The "Hot Pits" was at the far end of the track and they used push vehicles to push down and start up........

Gassers were required to be self starting and ran Street eliminator...
Altereds could push and ran Competition eliminator.....you could run a gasser as an altered and pit anywhere you wanted. My friend and former boss ran C/A and B/G with the same car. A 301 in a Prefect. ( Looks like an Anglia) Injected with a 4 speed........Was a very wild ride back then.

We had a Gasser circuit run around my area a lot and they put on a great show.........

I think you got ALL that right,Rich. The 10% engine setback rule created a few unintended consequences. I do think that "Super Eliminator" came along a little later.

We built a Chevy powered Henry J in 1962, thinking it would make a good Gasser.

The only thing we didn't realize was that that particular brand of car has the body shoved forward on the chassis SO FAR, that when you position the engine on the chassis with a 10% setback, the number one sparkplug is now directly below the base of the windshield, putting the entire engine behind the firewall. This necessites constructing an all-encompassing engine cover. What a hassle...

Thanks for your comments,Rich!

[Rich Biebel]

Bill your a few years older than me so you have more years and changes to cover from the early days.
I went to the racetrack for the first time in about 1962 or 1963. I convinced my father and mother on a sunday drive to go down the entry road to Island Dragway. I went "crazy" when I saw the cars racing and it must have warped my brain! I had no drivers license or a car for a couple years and tried to get older friends who did to pick me up and get back there. By 1966 I was racing all the time and was fortunate to see a heck of a lot of development in the sport first hand......I tell people today.....We just never knew what we were going to see when we went racing as cars and classes were developing and the sport was rapidly changing......Easily the best era......mid 60's to early 70's......

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Rich Erickson

THAT is a funny photo!!!

I see frrom the shoe polish on the windshield, that "PEE WEE" ran D Gas, a 13 pounds per cubic inch class (at least, early on it was.). Even a 265 Chevy motor would have had to weigh atleast 3,445 to run that class.

Maybe it was a later car; one that ran after they came up with different weight breaks... That doesn't look like a 3,400+-pound car to me... but it sure is cute!!!!

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

Bill your a few years older than me so you have more years and changes to cover from the early days.
I went to the racetrack for the first time in about 1962 or 1963. I convinced my father and mother on a sunday drive to go down the entry road to Island Dragway. I went "crazy" when I saw the cars racing and it must have warped my brain! I had no drivers license or a car for a couple years and tried to get older friends who did to pick me up and get back there. By 1966 I was racing all the time and was fortunate to see a heck of a lot of development in the sport first hand......I tell people today.....We just never knew what we were going to see when we went racing as cars and classes were developing and the sport was rapidly changing......Easily the best era......mid 60's to early 70's......

Rich,

You got in on most of the changes. Not a lot happened to the Gassers between 1955 and '62 that was significant except for the blown Gassers. They really weren't much in profusion in the really early years, but began to show up big time, in about 1961.

The Super Stock movement was also born (as a concept, if not as an Eliminator) in the very early '60s with teams like the Ramchargers, the Golden Commandos, Tasca Ford, Bill Thomas and Nickey Chevrolet sporting the latest in high performance "factory" OEM hardware.

That was pretty exciting, just seeing what the factories had come up with for the new model year.

Yep,it was a great time to be a fan of NHRA racing!!!!

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

THAT is a funny photo!!!

I see frrom the shoe polish on the windshield, that "PEE WEE" ran D Gas, a 13 pounds per cubic inch class (at least, early on it was.). Even a 265 Chevy motor would have had to weigh atleast 3,445 to run that class.

Maybe it was a later car; one that ran after they came up with different weight breaks... That doesn't look like a 3,400+-pound car to me... but it sure is cute!!!!

Bill,you missed the 2,000# weight bar in the rear.

[CycloneFE]

This is a priceless history lesson of a very innovative Class in Drag Racing. I thank all of you for your comments.

Now, were the turbos used by Mallicoat's or Montgomery an advantage? Were they just a flash in the pan? I saw that Montgomery used the Boss 429 motor for a while, did it do well? I thought it was "dead" until I saw Glidden use it in the EXP's and it seemed mediocre at best.

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Bill,you missed the 2,000# weight bar in the rear.

Must have been a HydraMatic car, Al..... As I said earlier, Pitman-Edwards once ran a 3,600-pound '41 Willys... LOL! No wheelspin there, and the tires didn't much matter....

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by CycloneFE

This is a priceless history lesson of a very innovative Class in Drag Racing. I thank all of you for your comments.

Now, were the turbos used by Mallicoat's or Montgomery an advantage? Were they just a flash in the pan? I saw that Montgomery used the Boss 429 motor for a while, did it do well? I thought it was "dead" until I saw Glidden use it in the EXP's and it seemed mediocre at best.

I wasn't paying a lot of attention to turbos when the Mallicoat Bros. and George Montgomery were breaking new ground with their hairdryer experiments, but I should have been. I don't remember the particulars, but I think that those two cars were at least partially responsible for NHRA putting different pounds-per-cubic-inch factors on later turbocharged cars (compared with cars powered by Roots-blown engines.) It wasn't long before the powers that be (at the time) were made aware that a turbo motor was capable of higher specific output, across the board, than a conventionally supercharged powerplant of the same size, as a general rule. So, NHRA responded in different ways.
Turbos are banned in the cookie-cutter Top Fuel and Nitro Funny Car classes. Ditto for both Top Alcohol Dragster and Top Alcohol Funny Car. Makes you wonder what they're afraid of.... Comp Eliminator cars can be turbocharged, but the pounds-per-cubic-inch is closely regulated. Turbocharged Stockers and Super Stockers are a hot topic right now, for several reasons that would be subject matter for another thread, or maybe, two.

I'm not knowledgable enough about Ford 385 Pro Stock motors to say anything at all... sorry. I guess that Blue Crescent motor was derived from the 385 series, wasn't it???


Glad you liked this thread, Steve; there are lots of old racers on here who, fortunately, remember a lot more than I do about this stuff. I appreciate their comments, too!!!