Crate Motor Class

[Myron Piatek]

Originally Posted by Bobby Zlatkin

Lee,

Any thought of a crate motor class being a budget class is a misconception. How can it cost any less to build a first class crate motor car than a first class regular stocker?

That may have been the original thought but it has progressed far beyond that now.

One of the advantages of a crate motor is that you do have more options than with a regular Stocker. Holley carbs are plentiful and it seems that more people know how to work on them without having to go to a "specialist". Any unmodified, commonly available aftermarket aluminum intake can be used. IHRA also allows aftermarket roller rockers. Some combos need durability help while others don't. But bottom line is that you don't have to search junkyards hoping to find specific part numbers hoping they are still usable or paying a premium for parts that are.

While it may not add up to a big savings when compared to a fully prepped Stocker engine, it makes it easier and more economical to get it under the index when people are trying to get into class racing to begin with. There will always be a pretty big range of what people can put into it, in IHRA as well as NHRA. But that "range" is needed to get people involved and keeping the class alive. At least it is in IHRA where it saved the class from extinction. The really fast racers can still strut their stuff in qualifying, class run-offs or heads-up runs. But at least the little guy can play too, unlike NHRA where you have to jump through hoops and still not be sure if you can even qualify at a national event because of grading points, limited fields or despite a decent run under the index.

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by LNorton

Crate motor classes were started as an outlet for racers to be able to build a car and compete in stock on a low budget. So in order to make it easier for newcomers to get under the index and race on Sunday the indexes started off soft. You may think I am out in left field on this one...
When I was running pure stock I was told those indexes were soft and were gonna get hit 2 tenths.

OK i understand "the noble idea" of getting cost down..but if there is room to "play hard ball" and go all out and use that .15 or whatever..that my be one of the reasons "crossover" is so poor..sorry i just cant see it happening in NHRA whitout actually loosing carcounts in the end..same as IHRA..just cant see that alot of the current NHRA racers would be happy in a "runwhatyabrung" bracket race..i may be wrong ofcourse..

[LNorton]

Originally Posted by bsa633

OK i understand "the noble idea" of getting cost down..but if there is room to "play hard ball" and go all out and use that .15 or whatever..that my be one of the reasons "crossover" is so poor..sorry i just cant see it happening in NHRA whitout actually loosing carcounts in the end..same as IHRA..just cant see that alot of the current NHRA racers would be happy in a "runwhatyabrung" bracket race..i may be wrong ofcourse..

The index difference doesn't even affect the traditional class cars. It isn't like a D/SA car and an H/CM car actually run heads up...

[Chipper Chapman]

I'm a fan of the crate motor cars, and what the index affects is qualifying, the guys with the fast stockers don't seem so fast when you look a qualifying sheet that shows crate cars running a bit further under, not a lot though. The indexes where already hit 2 tenths a couple years agos, maybe time for 1 more becuase as it's been said the cost effectiveness of crate motor is gone, but the convenience is still there.

[Michael Beard]

>> When nine or ten of the top 10 qualifiers are crate motor cars and they're accross the board; it's not the HP factors being soft as much as it's the indexes being soft..

You must also consider the cars that are included in that qualifying list, and the percentage of types of classes competing. As has been pointed out earlier, throw the crate motors against the standard NHRA LODRS qualifying field, and things would look very different.

>> Why should the 9.5 lb. stock index and the 9.5 lb. crate motor index not be the same?

I've used that line of thought in terms of combining sticks & autos... that gets the NHRA guys in an uproar! LOL Theoretically, if the HP factors are correct, all classes could be based on weight factors alone rather than Stick, Auto, Truck, FI, FWD, CM, PS, GT, or what have you... but many will rationalize why that can't be done. In any case, it's an interesting mental gymnastics exercise.

>> Any thought of a crate motor class being a budget class is a misconception. ... That may have been the original thought but it has progressed far beyond that now.

I agree. You "can" do it on a budget, but if you want to be "fast", you're going to spend money, regardless of class.

Lee - nobody's "whining". We're having a discussion.

>> just cant see that alot of the current NHRA racers would be happy in a "runwhatyabrung" bracket race..

Good thing that's not what it is! It'd help if people quit propagating that incorrect assertion.

$.02,

[Brandon Peterson]

a "runwhatubrung" bracket race......let me see here.....last time i checked Crate Motor engines are built the same way traditional stocker engines are built....byt a freakin rule book......IHRA as well as NHRA have rules on building motors.....if your saying IHRA is that type of race what makes NHRA so different....there are cars that run .3 to .5 under and cars that run -1.0 under in NHRA whats the difference between that and IHRA cars being a crate motor or traditional motor.....we built our engine the same way you built your engine with a rule book telling us what we could and couldn't do to the motor...same way your engine got built....so if anyone is runnnig this so called "runwhatubrung" its everyone...i hate that saying its not like the local bracket start tolled in with his 85 mustang with a 396 chevy bb in it and raced......these motors are built by rules weather fallowed or not thats for someone else to figure out......

thats my .02

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by Brandon Peterson

a "runwhatubrung" bracket race......let me see here.....last time i checked Crate Motor engines are built the same way traditional stocker engines are built....byt a freakin rule book......IHRA as well as NHRA have rules on building motors.....if your saying IHRA is that type of race what makes NHRA so different....there are cars that run .3 to .5 under and cars that run -1.0 under in NHRA whats the difference between that and IHRA cars being a crate motor or traditional motor.....we built our engine the same way you built your engine with a rule book telling us what we could and couldn't do to the motor...same way your engine got built....so if anyone is runnnig this so called "runwhatubrung" its everyone...i hate that saying its not like the local bracket start tolled in with his 85 mustang with a 396 chevy bb in it and raced......these motors are built by rules weather fallowed or not thats for someone else to figure out......
thats my .02

What i meen is not that the cars or engines isnt built by a rule book or similar..just the wide range of cars and combos compeeting..really making it a ´bracket race" instead of a classrace...i still think that this has to do with more bracket oriented racers just "wanting in" than anything else..guy's that really wanna do NHRA-racing builds or get something allowed overthere..because those cars can run IHRA too!

mr LNorton...I am not that stupid! but why should they have an extra .15..and maybe as some say soft ratings too?

[Ed Carpenter]

Some people are saying NHRA needs crate motor cars because of car counts. I looked today and the winternationals looks pretty full to me in S/SS. I haven't raced at an NHRA event yet(I will in April at Dallas if work allows). I have spectated at numerous D4 races and I can tell you alot more guys turn out in S/SS at those races than the IHRA races I have raced in D4. I don't know about the rest of the country.

[Michael Beard]

>> i still think that this has to do with more bracket oriented racers just "wanting in" than anything else

Actually, a large number of the crate motor guys are primarily class racers. While there are some die-hards like me, Macy, Southards, that will race anything anytime anywhere, there are many others that rarely if ever bracket race.

[Brandon Peterson]

come on mike i thought i did good enough to be classified as a bracket racer now....lol....put about 357 on the ole crate this year...not bad