2011 ahfs

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by art leong

Chad what would you do in my case? Where there are only 2 other cars in the world?
One problem is a lot of racers have "I have to run the same combo that everyone else does"
I agree with the complete full teardown before a instant hit.

I understand your position, there is not another 69 427/435 running that I know of. I doubt we will ever be fast enough to trigger an instant hit in AA/SA with it, but if we did we affect no one but ourselves. In your case you would piss two others off. How close are you guys et wise if you don't mind me asking?

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

I understand your position, there is not another 69 427/435 running that I know of. I doubt we will ever be fast enough to trigger an instant hit in AA/SA with it, but if we did we affect no one but ourselves. In your case you would piss two others off. How close are you guys et wise if you don't mind me asking?

One car is being built and the other is as fast or faster than me.
If the crybabies hadn't gotten Indy changed I could not have cared less about the index.
But now if I go out and get the index whacked by half a second at a mineshaft track. What happens at Indy with a density altitude of 3500 feet. Remember I run a 151 cubic inch motor that weighs 2600 pounds

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by art leong

One car is being built and the other is as fast or faster than me.
If the crybabies hadn't gotten Indy changed I could not have cared less about the index.
But now if I go out and get the index whacked by half a second at a mineshaft track. What happens at Indy with a density altitude of 3500 feet. Remember I run a 151 cubic inch motor that weighs 2600 pounds

your case is different because it affects your index, thus your ability to qualify for Indy. I do thin you getting whacked .50 in index is nuts, because its not affecting parity in your class at all, if anything it may discourage some guy from building a car for your class. All it will do is change your position on the ladder.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

your case is different because it affects your index, thus your ability to qualify for Indy. I do thin you getting whacked .50 in index is nuts, because its not affecting parity in your class at all, if anything it may discourage some guy from building a car for your class. All it will do is change your position on the ladder.

If my index were to get hit .50 I doubt anyone in my class could even get in the eliminator at Indy.

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by art leong

If my index were to get hit .50 I doubt anyone in my class could even get in the eliminator at Indy.

understood

[Craig Couris]

Let's address the A/SA & AA/SA indexes for a moment. The A index is 11.00 and the AA index is 10.60. Wouldn't it be much more fair to the older cars if the AA index was softened up to let's say 10.75? With the proposed AHFS, the blown cars basically get a free pass because there is no reason ever to go faster than a 9.61 but there isn't a carburetor car that can run that fast. We all know the blown cars can go much faster when and if needed.

Now, I put the weight in my car to run A/SA because there is no way I can run with a blown car. I can now go 9.90's so I now I must slow the car down just to make sure I do not hurt my combination. How can anyone say my car now needs hit with HP?

The AA index needs to be changed now.

[Sean Cour]

Originally Posted by Craig Couris

Let's address the A/SA & AA/SA indexes for a moment. The A index is 11.00 and the AA index is 10.60. Wouldn't it be much more fair to the older cars if the AA index was softened up to let's say 10.75? With the proposed AHFS, the blown cars basically get a free pass because there is no reason ever to go faster than a 9.61 but there isn't a carburetor car that can run that fast. We all know the blown cars can go much faster when and if needed.

Now, I put the weight in my car to run A/SA because there is no way I can run with a blown car. I can now go 9.90's so I now I must slow the car down just to make sure I do not hurt my combination. How can anyone say my car now needs hit with HP?

The AA index needs to be changed now.

Craig, a carb car has run that fast. But I agree on the index. A .75 would make a lot more sense. It's like a 200 lb. difference between A and AA for most of the higher rated cars. The difference is more like two-two and half tenths, not four.

[Craig Couris]

Sean,

I stand corrected on the Camaro but you do see the absurdity of the AA/SA index and I appreciate that.

Craig

[Michael Beard]

Chad Rhodes - lots of good posts.

The new AHFS would have accelerated the newer cars, but a lot of older cars would get some adjustment also. I think more than most people would think. I don't have all of it in my computer at home, but there is a pattern of lots of older cars that steadily thrash all year that would get the semi annual adjustment where most of the adjustment for the newer cars is earned on instant adjustment.

Okay. Then they should get horsepower. It's got nothing to do with old cars vs new cars. It's just numbers.

Michael, it would take more than a bell curve to do what you want. Maybe a 'Gong" curve.

Mmm, no. And it doesn't have anything to do with what I "want". I don't have a "want". It's math. Do run completion on years of data so that we have a clear picture of what cars would've actually been running that were actively "protecting their index", and automatically adjust HP, up or down, based on analysis of those numbers and an arbitrary trigger. No "well, that should apply to Neons and not Camaros, or that should apply to Firebirds and not GTOs".... Numbers. Period. Faster than trigger, get HP. Slower than some min. trigger, get HP back. Factor EVERYBODY once now, then let everybody get back to racing for a good long while.

As far as the heads up racing, you know I am 300% for that, but I'm telling you, most Stock and Super Stock racers are not ready for a lot of heads up.

Alright, y'all gonna have to explain that one to me... Combining classes based on weight breaks as I proposed earlier in this thread wouldn't have people running heads-up every other round, just a little more often than they do now. Not to mention Class Eliminations would get REALLY cool! (and potentially, worth more than currently). Who is it that isn't ready for a handful of heads-up in a season, that may or may not happen? Bracket racers?

Look at SS/AH. Cost of doing that outran inflation by 2,676,438%, and most of the ultra fast can't run rounds any more.

Different animal. You've got SS/AH guys that race like they're Pro Stockers (albeit cooler!), and you've got SS/AH guys (in your own stables) that can and do win "regular" races. You're always going to have both kinds.

[K Stubbs]

I think a good idea would be to have at least a couple of races a year, maybe more, where stock and superstock can run just like comp eliminator, off index no breakout with a cic. And pre factor some of the cars that are way underfactored. This way the guys that want to strive to go faster can have a race to do it without the AHFS.