2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes

[danny waters sr]

Why not have baseball 5 strikes you out or have football closest to the goal after 4 downs each gets the TD, lol . Drag racing is fine ,don't need to re- invent the wheel ,just fix the flat and go.

[Bobby Fazio]

I like the break-out rule the way it is. As far as the red light rule, here is my suggestion (just a suggestion people). How about extending the tree blocker all the way down to cover the red-light bulb and then the worst red-light loses? I believe the red bulb does cause a distraction to the faster car, especially in a 1-3 bulb handicapped race. The scoreboard would not light up until the second car leaves and the computer determines which light is "more red" so that wouldn't be a distraction either. The code for that loop would be simple to write, we were taught how to write a similar program during my freshman year at college. Rules would stay as they currently are on a bye run, automatic win, no red light or break out in a bye run. Again, this has nothing to do with "first guy to break out loses.." Comparing these two rules is apples and oranges.

Secondly, just from being the chaser in bracket racing to getting chased like a gang member in Super stock.. anyone who is even attempting to say that slower cars have an advantage in a drag race should really think through their hypothesis again (or must really have eyes in the back of their Simpsons). The whole race is in front of you, and currently you have the red light advantage working in your favor. Now I can't defend the slower car who never references his/her opponent and breaks out while said opponent is parked at midtrack but I am 99% sure a faster car has never gotten around a broken car at halftrack and neglected to lift. "Build a faster car" is not the answer people want to hear, especially people who care about preserving great classes that go beyond SS/AM or AA/SA. But not seeing a "true tree" in my opinion, is only a small (and easily corrected) sacrifice for the advantages that lie ahead for the next 1320 feet. Don't forget being the faster car, my friends, is the reason we have that idiotic tool known as a throttle stop in all the super index classes.

Lastly, after I've probably just pissed off a few people! I know it's a bit early but I was wondering if anyone from the east coast has thought of making the trip to Pomona for the Winternationals in February. Please let me know if you have any extra room in your trailer and how much expense money you would like. God bless.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Ed, I knew you wouldn't disappoint me! ("I see they let you out of the asylum again hey Dedman?")

You also didn't disappoint by admitting that you're amazed that I actually spent hours thinking about the red light rule. You obviously haven't spent enough time thinking about it, because you still don't understand it. You say you agree with the breakout rule as it is written. I think everyone does, but it wasn't always written this way; it had to be CHANGED to get away from "first car to breakout, loses" to the rule we have, now.

Time to change the first redlight rule to match it. You wouldn't want to race under inconsistent rules, would you?

Or would you? In your last post, you imply that I am in an insane asylum, yet you offer nothing but your own opinion when faced with the problem of presenting a logical argument as to why the antiquated, unfair and easy-to-fix red light rule shouldn't be changed.

I said that type of response would be your choice (you can look it up), and you came through for me!!!!!

The more things (about you) change, the more they stay the same....

Thanks, Ed~

Go and take your meds and lay down for a while Bill.The redlight rule still suits me fine.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by SStock1373

I like the break-out rule the way it is. As far as the red light rule, here is my suggestion (just a suggestion people). How about extending the tree blocker all the way down to cover the red-light bulb and then the worst red-light loses? I believe the red bulb does cause a distraction to the faster car, especially in a 1-3 bulb handicapped race. The scoreboard would not light up until the second car leaves and the computer determines which light is "more red" so that wouldn't be a distraction either. The code for that loop would be simple to write, we were taught how to write a similar program during my freshman year at college. Rules would stay as they currently are on a bye run, automatic win, no red light or break out in a bye run. Again, this has nothing to do with "first guy to break out loses.." Comparing these two rules is apples and oranges.

Secondly, just from being the chaser in bracket racing to getting chased like a gang member in Super stock.. anyone who is even attempting to say that slower cars have an advantage in a drag race should really think through their hypothesis again (or must really have eyes in the back of their Simpsons). The whole race is in front of you, and currently you have the red light advantage working in your favor. Now I can't defend the slower car who never references his/her opponent and breaks out while said opponent is parked at midtrack but I am 99% sure a faster car has never gotten around a broken car at halftrack and neglected to lift. "Build a faster car" is not the answer people want to hear, especially people who care about preserving great classes that go beyond SS/AM or AA/SA. But not seeing a "true tree" in my opinion, is only a small (and easily corrected) sacrifice for the advantages that lie ahead for the next 1320 feet. Don't forget being the faster car, my friends, is the reason we have that idiotic tool known as a throttle stop in all the super index classes.

Lastly, after I've probably just pissed off a few people! I know it's a bit early but I was wondering if anyone from the east coast has thought of making the trip to Pomona for the Winternationals in February. Please let me know if you have any extra room in your trailer and how much expense money you would like. God bless.

Well put Bob.It seems that the ones here looking for the change are either:
1) Guys with the faster cars
2) Busy bodies without a class car
3) No names
Maybe us "slower" guys in S/SS are just happy being out there racing.
Maybe to shut them up NHRA could block the whole tree.What would they want next?Maybe a 10' wall extending down the track for 100' so they could have their Holy Grail:
a clean tree.
Where does it end?

[Wade_Owens]

Originally Posted by Hurley1828

dad and I are both very excited that our 1955 Chevy Belair stocker can now run both IHRA and NHRA.

Thanks Again!
Shelby Hurley

Trust me, I glad you were instrumental in getting it changed also!

Wade

[Mike Carr]

Here's an off-the-wall idea (or maybe not).

This was proposed several years ago for bracket racing (It may have been by the late Steve Taylor). Best total package wins, and there are no more redlights or breakouts ever. Just the closest total package to .000 wins. Example:

Me, in DF/S, dialed 15.05. An opponent in a B/SA dialed 10.50.
My reaction time -.002. Opponents RT .010
My ET 15.048. My opponent 10.512

My total package is -.004. Opponent is .022

Under the proposed system, I would be the winner, since my total run was closer to perfect (.000 package) than my opponent's.

That should get some opinions flowing.


As for the worst redlight, it would be of great benefit to me to see it changed, as I have always been THE slowest Stocker on the property at every race I've ever ran at in my career, except four ('04 and '06 Dutch, '02 Delmar and '02 Atco LODRS). If NHRA/IHRA were to go to the worst redlight loses, hey, great. It would be of help to me and all slow cars. I'd be in favor of it. If they don't change it, I am ok with it, too. Would it bring me out of retirement if it was changed? No. NHRA and IHRA have much bigger overall issues that I have a problem with than the redlight rule. If they were to fix those, then maybe you'd see me back. Yes, the current redlight rule does favor the faster car, but I knew the rules coming in, fair or not. This argument comes up once a year it seems (usually by Dedman). One can make the argument for and against both the slower car, and faster car, and who has the advantage.

Faster car:
-gets to leave last
-has the race in front of them the whole way
-has a car that is not affected as much by weather/wind changes
-has parts readily available more so than some slower/older cars

Slower car:
-gets to leave first with no distractions
-a slow(er) car will usually hook better, and is not totally dependant on a good starting line
-usually costs less than a big-block or late model fast car
-likely has a softer HP factor and can run further under (in some cases)

That's the beauty of Class Racing. There is something for everyone. Bracket racing artists, go-fast guys, record chasers, whatever tickles your fancy. Stock has 51 (now 52 in 2011) classes. S/S has many more (80+, I believe). Almost anyone can find something to race, based on personal preferance. Why people constantly want to change it dramatically is beyond me. If it is in the intent of being safer, more cost-effective, and in the spirit of fairer competition (whether it's putting the new cars in FX classes, reducing HP for older cars, changing the redlight rule, etc etc), I am 100% in favor of it. In the grand scheme of things, my opinion(s) don't mean jack squat. I don't race anymore, and don't intend to in the near future, unless things change within the sanctioning bodies. Then I can again become a current racer and can have ACTUAL input.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Here's an off-the-wall idea (or maybe not).

This was proposed several years ago for bracket racing (It may have been by the late Steve Taylor). Best total package wins, and there are no more redlights or breakouts ever. Just the closest total package to .000 wins. Example:

Me, in DF/S, dialed 15.05. An opponent in a B/SA dialed 10.50.
My reaction time -.002. Opponents RT .010
My ET 15.048. My opponent 10.512

My total package is -.004. Opponent is .022

Under the proposed system, I would be the winner, since my total run was closer to perfect (.000 package) than my opponent's.

That should get some opinions flowing.


As for the worst redlight, it would be of great benefit to me to see it changed, as I have always been THE slowest Stocker on the property at every race I've ever ran at in my career, except four ('04 and '06 Dutch, '02 Delmar and '02 Atco LODRS). If NHRA/IHRA were to go to the worst redlight loses, hey, great. It would be of help to me and all slow cars. I'd be in favor of it. If they don't change it, I am ok with it, too. Would it bring me out of retirement if it was changed? No. NHRA and IHRA have much bigger overall issues that I have a problem with than the redlight rule. If they were to fix those, then maybe you'd see me back. Yes, the current redlight rule does favor the faster car, but I knew the rules coming in, fair or not. This argument comes up once a year it seems (usually by Dedman). One can make the argument for and against both the slower car, and faster car, and who has the advantage.

Faster car:
-gets to leave last
-has the race in front of them the whole way
-has a car that is not affected as much by weather/wind changes
-has parts readily available more so than some slower/older cars

Slower car:
-gets to leave first with no distractions
-a slow(er) car will usually hook better, and is not totally dependant on a good starting line
-usually costs less than a big-block or late model fast car
-likely has a softer HP factor and can run further under (in some cases)

That's the beauty of Class Racing. There is something for everyone. Bracket racing artists, go-fast guys, record chasers, whatever tickles your fancy. Stock has 51 (now 52 in 2011) classes. S/S has many more (80+, I believe). Almost anyone can find something to race, based on personal preferance. Why people constantly want to change it dramatically is beyond me. If it is in the intent of being safer, more cost-effective, and in the spirit of fairer competition (whether it's putting the new cars in FX classes, reducing HP for older cars, changing the redlight rule, etc etc), I am 100% in favor of it. In the grand scheme of things, my opinion(s) don't mean jack squat. I don't race anymore, and don't intend to in the near future, unless things change within the sanctioning bodies. Then I can again become a current racer and can have ACTUAL input.

Mikey,you're making rocket science out of a simple 1/4 mile drag race.

[Mike Carr]

Eddie, it wasn't MY idea. Just repeating something I heard several years ago and wanted to see racers reactions, for the fun of it.

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Mike Carr

Eddie, it wasn't MY idea. Just repeating something I heard several years ago and wanted to see racers reactions, for the fun of it.

put down the pipe mike

[bill dedman]

Some things to ponder...

1. The worse red light rule would hardly ever come into play, as that is a rare situation (worse red light by the second car to leave,) Most of the time, it would go totally unnoticed.

2. This rule change is NOT necessarily about slow vs. fast cars. It applies to EVERY race that is not a heads-up run. Any dissimilar classed cars, such as an A Stocker vs. a B Stocker, or a K Stocker vs. an L Stocker.... The tendency is to think that it's just a benefit for lower-classed cars, but it would benefit virtually EVERYONE who runs a handicapped race in that they could no longer lose to a car with a worse red-light infraction than thery had.

3. No "driving adjustments" would be necessary because no red light would come on before the second car had left the line.

In short, there's no logical reason NOT to change it that I can see. The contention that if you have a higher-classed car, and you are racing against. say, a T Stock car, and the T Stocker red lit, you'd be on the converter, waiting for the green a longer time, is a pretty weak argument against this rule change, considering the benefits. The only competitor who could NOT ever benefit from this rule change would be any car in the top class. He'd lose the built-in advantage of the present situation, wherein EVERY CAR HE RACES in a handicapped race is faced with redlight jeopardy before he is. He'd lose that unfair advantage.

Don't you think that everyone racing should have an equal chance to redlight?

This system would provide that. What we have now doesn't work that way; the second car to leave never has a chance to redlight if the first car turns on the bukb. That sucks.

It's sucked since 1963, when they didn't have the software to fix it, like they fixed the original first car to breakout rule.

Time to get rid of this antiquated unfair system.

Ed,if you can't understand that, you simply need to think about it a while longer... you'll get it, eventually... like you did with the "worst breakout" rule that you're okay with. Same deal... I know you don't want to return to the original "First car breakout loses."