Challenger Drag Pak Owners

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Yuppers I agree Irv....thats the problem with doing the 8.99 is the "LEAP" it will take after others (like you have added to the 6.1 combo, were going to be 5.7 for a while.

If you "lay low" and Couglin, and everyone else with the 6.1 "lays low" until late in the year when were on our Phase III motor...think you could do that for us ? lol....yeah right, Im gonna let you butt heads with Coughlin and Force and whoever else shows up in AA Ive heard a few more that will be all A type personalities not light to be the slow ones in AA......I figure A is (in terms of speed) our best shot at Pomona, given the fact we hope the car will be running right

So , seriously, and Im not talking within the NHRA factors, do you believe the car is capable of an 8.99 motor and suspension wise, with all the RD in say 9 months ??? If not , what and why not ? I know youve got a wicked fast piece and if anyone knows what these cars are REALLY capable of its you at this moment from a complete package standpoint ?

You can PM me and I wont reveal what your answer is, I am truly curious of your thougths on it.

Cheers

Chris

Originally Posted by Irv Johns

If your going to go 8.99 you better do it first run, cause when you go 9.350 the horsepower fairy gives you 13 HP and then you have to carry another 97 lbs in AA/Sa or run 974 in A/sa and get the same gift only its 104 Lbs. So therfore the fastter you go the fatter the will make yor weight box.

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Yes I do,,,,,,sort of...... not that they have missed (and the factor of 1/10th of a horse was relative to my usual of sub 350cc engines) here 1/10th is all relative but really equates in size, and friction differential to about 1-2 hp per item.

Not that they have missed it, but they dont see benefit in it. There are some items like slicing lifter bores I dont know if they are legal, but all those items have workarounds I do know are legal, If I can reduce 60-70% of my valvtrain friction thats a good start, and pretty easy on this motor. Phase II will have all those items.

I dont think nearly anyone has "Missed" items like that, undercutting valve guides for example, you loose reliablity and its labor intensive, on an 8 it can be good for up to 8-10, especially at high RPM......

Anyone is who is aware of these items can do it, WILL they do it is another question entirley.

I think most people know of these items but MOST arent willing to commit the resources to 1-2 hp. We will (to my knowlede be the first running crank scrapers on these motors for Stock Eliminator) whats that worth ? about 2 hp ? maybe a hair more ?

The coatings and treatments, really most of those arent for HP, they are to try to gap some of the reliablity problems that will be introcuced throwing in "the kitchen sink" Running a motor on the verge of desctruction is the best way in my experience to pull power. How many others are willing to turn their engine into a pile of metal shavings ? But I am....so is the old man....

Maybe this isnt a "Stock Eliminator" approch to things, i dont know....the only thing I do know is how Ive always done things, so this is a comfort zone and Im aware of the expectations from a point of having to do-redo things to maintain a running package at all times.

Like myself and others have pointed out, Were new to stock eliminator, so maybe these things are best left to another class (id be running a FED this year a choice) but I am playing the cards I was dealt , and the DP project are those cards. If we do things different that other "Stockers" no suprise, but the processes and procedures work and have worked for us, if they need altered we can alter them.

I go through 3 checklists on every item, 1 the inital checklist, validated by me, the second checklist a verification of someone elses hands and eyes, also bringing and correcting other items, the third pass by me again. I have a clipboard, and ask my dad, hes the MASTER of Preflight checklists. Is that "Normal" for stock eliminator I have ABSOLUTLEY NO, 0 idea but were good with it, and it works......so well stick with it....

I am 100% ok with sacrificing reliablity for performance. IF I go into it with full knowledge of the payoff and consequences. My dad, when given the options will as well ALWAYS take the one that makes us fastest, IF he has an accurate expectation in terms of reliablity were loosing. If I have to tear down and inspect inbetween every nat, I will do that, it "takes what it takes" simple....to me I guess....and the part I enjoy

No I dont think most people miss the things, I will bet the opposite, that nearly every builder who hasnt implemented these things did so for a reason, they saw bad ink on the balance sheet from reliabilty to performance potential, they made what choice they made for reasons that suit them. I HAVE built knowingly slow cars and bikes IF the payoff was reliability, but I did so knowingly and with purpose.

I think they KNOWINGLY choose not to do these items for a plethora of good reasons that fit their scenario, budget, goals and knowledge.

Cheers

Chris

Originally Posted by boostedf22c

So you've found about 2500-3000 things that most others have missed???

I just don't think you are going to be able to measure, coat, treat and degree in 250-300 extra horsepower.

[GUMP]

Chris,

How about shooting me that spec. sheet?

Thanks,

Daren

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

The whole manual is on the way up to the server, I will post a link to it tommorow, it will take all night to upload, the page scans are HUGE

Cheers

Chris

Originally Posted by GUMP

Chris,

How about shooting me that spec. sheet?

Thanks,

Daren

[Mopar Steve]

I've been reading all this nonsense from the beginning and this will be my only post on this.

All this stuff that drooze thought of that is going to put this car in the "8's," wouldn't someone else, who actually has drag racing experience, have already thought of and tried these things?

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Apparently you to misunderstand.

I said I think it is POSSIBLE, and I think it will happen.

We are NOT trying to put our car in the 8's BUT

The road for us is the exact same for the destination.

Think of it this way, we have 3 phases planned 1 is done and will be testing and wrung out through Gaiensville, Phase 2 through early Aug and Phase 3 from then till early next season.

We want to keep the car in a competitive upward reach. Not build it run be done.

We are not shooting for 8's that is NOWHERE on our Roadmap.

BUT The path to get there is the same EXACT path as it is to stay competitive and outfront over the long haul (a season)

So......if the opportunity or "off ramp" should show itself within that time maybe a detour is in order.

Now do you understand what I am saying ? I want the car to do it, and by saying we plan for it, were not planning for the 8's were planning to keep the car ahead.

In as much as "who actually has drag racing experience" we do have that, we have more in other areas, but stock eliminator is new....big difference to NO drag experience.

But to me, thats all the more reason to ignore other pundits, Thinking "well if other havent done it I cant" is a certain recipie for utter failure

"Wether you think you can or not youre right"
"The bigges deterent to progress is .... oh hell I cant remeber.....Basically common knowledge or ASSUMING someone else knows something you dont is also a recipie for failure 100%

I ASSUMED that when these engines were put together that they were put together RIGHT, and that the cam position in was correct and that there was no way Stanton missed something like this, and that I, ME, I must be missing something, that it had to be right and I was not understanding the setup.

I was 100% Wrong, the cam was in wrong, I , my gut was right......so in as much as people with "actual drag experience" well thats 1 item, 2 is is it harder to pull 65 hp out of a 326cc engine or 750 out of a 383 inch engine ? The details on a smaller engine are that much more critical, I also can work on watches and camera shutters in my sleep, but that happens from living in the "Watch Room" with a grandfather who was a wathcmaker, not a repairman, a watch MAKER, who taught me well.....so YES I think we know things others dont in engines......by June well see....I could be 100% wrong, and that will be 100% OK too.....

I mean how many people ever , ever in their lifetime who love cars get an opporunity to build (less cage and such) a Drag Pak car themselves, with their own hands 100% Paint, wiring, plumbing etc......ever.....Making EVERY decision on EVERY part that goes in with no contratints, noone to answer to, no "client" no wife.....just build it the way you feel it should be built.

On a car, of this importance (historically the DP cars I mean) I will NEVER see an opportunity like this again , of that I am pretty certain. So Im here to enjoy the Journey, being able to do it with the old man, the things we used to do before he got sick.....I mean really ?

For US the Journey has been the reward the rest is gravy

For the other 100 DP Owners/ Builders.....Im sure they will see it the same, to be fortunate to even participate has been a privlage and worth it all in itself.

Cheers

Chris

KEEP NEW Names Coming...Zeeeee List is getting stale !

Originally Posted by Mopar Steve

I've been reading all this nonsense from the beginning and this will be my only post on this.

All this stuff that drooze thought of that is going to put this car in the "8's," wouldn't someone else, who actually has drag racing experience, have already thought of and tried these things?

[boostedf22c]

Originally Posted by drooze

We are NOT trying to put our car in the 8's BUT

Originally Posted by NEWHEMIRACINGBLOG

I think, and still do the ENGINE is capable of pushing this car to an 8.99...There is no reason not........Well we do know EXACTLY what it takes

Sure seems like to me that you think your car is capable and there is no reason why you wont run 8's???

We all know what it's going to take......

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Lol....I dont think its capable now, I think it has the potential to be. 10 even would be GREAT for a first outing with this motor.

I have GOT TO HAVE that Patch....thats sweeeeeetttt....dont like the green, but I think with a #24 on it, one on the old mans shirt one on mine that would be great. Thanks, now I got to go find someone who custom stitches patches before Pomona....just what I needed something else to add to my list.

Better be nice, you havent heard much about "Morroco Mole" latley, there is a reason for that, after suffering a serious frontal lobe injury from attempting , quite accidently to open the "Squirrel Mobile" briefcase in an elevator injuring several innocent bystandards.....1 of the also brain injured animals , (now a meat eating rabbit) had decided to go off and become villans, "Morroco" was caught attempting to tunnel under the White House lawn and fill the sprinkler system with JP1.....he is currently undergoing rehabilitation at an "undisclosed" location and it appears his progress is slower than wed like, but he has mentioned he would like to contribute to the efforts of DP #24, I just have real concerns about allowing him access to racing fuels and nitromethane.......He says hes Ok...but well Im not quite sure

Cheers

Chris

[boostedf22c]

Originally Posted by drooze

I have GOT TO HAVE that Patch....thats sweeeeeetttt....

You get the patch once you run 8's.

[Another Friendly Racer]

Come on now. No DP is going in the 8's in Stock. If you crack into the 9's you did good. The categorized to make a mockery of Stock mustangs are capable but even there odds are slim as they will need to haul from the get go with a -1.60 before getting horsepower.