Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by BadBanana

Once again, you're making progress, Alan. Slow, but some progress. I know about the 409s and Z-11s I had both when they were new. See the segment here about the '62 Nationals on this same site (the Z-11 is pictured there). Ran the 409 in SS/S at the 62 Nats. Received the Z-11 the next Winter and raced in '63.
To your point, when could you actually buy a '69 427/425 Camaro from the factory? Few had them from the factory, and I tried to buy one from my dealer - no dice !!! I settled for a 375hp 396 SS Camaro. Later people like Baldwin and Yenko made them. Back in those days NHRA forced the OEM Manuf. to make at least 50 before they would consider them into S and S/S. Geez, where have I heard that lately ????? My SS/EA started out as a 69 6 cyl Camaro.

We have met the enemy and they are US.

Records show they made around 1K or so COPO Camaros with the L-72 427-425 engine in 1969, I've read there were as many as 1200 or so. The engine itself had been installed on Corvettes and big cars since 1966 (the 427/425 became the 427/435 when they changed it to a 3-2 intake in the Corvette in 1967). I'm sure there were a lot of dealers that did not get a 427/425 Camaro in 1969, especially considering several dealers got a lot more than one. They came with a VIN, an exhaust system, street tires, and passed federal and 49 state safety and emissions standards.

What does making a 427/425 race car out of a 6 cylinder car have to do with anything? I'm sure the Camaro we run in Stock Eliminator did not start as a 427/425 car, you'd have to ask Steve Calabro and Joe Fasano but I think it was a 350 car. I think Steve Koppien's blue car did actually start out as a 427/425. The SS/EA we're racing now did actually start out as a 396/375 SS car, albeit with a 4 speed. People don't normally build race cars out of $100K collector's cars. That doesn't really have anything to do with the subject at hand.

[Alex Denysenko]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

People don't normally build race cars out of $100K collector's cars.

Actually Alan, there are quite a few of us that apparently are not normal.

Me, Ray Paquet, Ben Wenzel, Fred Henson, Richie Pauley, Doug Baker, Rusty Gillis, Steve Koppein, Steve and Horace Johnson, Jimmy Bridges are just a few off the top of my head.

[Pvt Parts]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Yep

[BadBanana]

Well Alan. I'm not sure where you were in '69 but I'd like to see those records. I had a 427/425 in a Corvette (1966) so I know they were available in Corvettes ( 425 hp and 435 hp); and I went to one of the real performance dealers (and more than 1 to find one). Most of the one's I found were either Baldwin Motion built or Yenko - maybe those numbers you quote consider those..... and I believe the factory ones were ZL1s

What's the point anyway? We're just quibbling to get away from the real issue.
My main and ONLY contention is that NHRA likes the new cars and they will be included in Stock. I doubt if they will make a new separate class or Elim. for them. Maybe they will - who knows !!
Even though it may seem that I am against YOU, I am trying to say that I WANT you guys to be able to fairly compete but I think if you make it a "either them or us" proposition in Stock, you will eventually lose your Eliminator.
Don't fight it, just fight to make it fair (hp factors and indices). It's not productive to fight the inevitable. Accept that they may be included in Stock Elim. and campaign to get the numbers right.
That's my suggestion and I don't have an ax to grind in this battle. Being a long time competitor in both Stock and Super Stock, I would just like to make they are strong and lasting.
That's it for me - peace !!!

[BadBanana]

I see Ben Wenzel is still in the hunt at Indy. Good going Ben. I remember when he won with an early Z-28 (I think). Is it the same car/combination? I ran a Z-28 in F/S back in the early 70s under the Truppi-Kling banner. It held the speed record while Tony Pizzi had the et record. John Burkholder had the hot Z-28 in G/S ('69 Z) back then and founded B&B perf.

[Pvt Parts]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

IMHO, that is the worst thing that NHRA ever did to Stock Eliminator!

Here's the rest of it..... And one of the best things they ever did for their pocketbook.

[Pvt Parts]

Originally Posted by Alex Denysenko

Actually Alan, there are quite a few of us that apparently are not normal.

Me, Ray Paquet, Ben Wenzel, Fred Henson, Richie Pauley, Doug Baker, Rusty Gillis, Steve Koppein, Steve and Horace Johnson, Jimmy Bridges are just a few off the top of my head.

Correct: If you believe that, you're not normal.

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by BadBanana

I see Ben Wenzel is still in the hunt at Indy. Good going Ben. I remember when he won with an early Z-28 (I think). Is it the same car/combination? I ran a Z-28 in F/S back in the early 70s under the Truppi-Kling banner. It held the speed record while Tony Pizzi had the et record. John Burkholder had the hot Z-28 in G/S ('69 Z) back then and founded B&B perf.

It's the same '67 Z-28 he won Indy with back in 1967.

[dwydendorf]

I just got back home yesterday and Indy was as awesome as usual. As usual, most of the same people are complaining about the same old horsepower factors and the new cars. Many of the same people complaining couldn't run with the old cars that are out there, let alone the new Mustangs and Drag Pak cars. Guys if you want to race at Indy, you have to show up there. That means either buying a car, or building one, and racing it. I have never seen it as easy as it was to make the program this year. Some guys must beleive the hype on this forum because many stayed home. Some of the faster classes are in the Milionaires club but there are many classes of stock that an average guy, or pair of guys could afford, if you are willing to put a car together but you have to do it. Stop complaining , now is the time to start on something for next year and remember if you don't show up at Indy you can't win at Indy.

[Doug Blackley]

Originally Posted by BadBanana

Once again, you're making progress, Alan. Slow, but some progress. I know about the 409s and Z-11s I had both when they were new. See the segment here about the '62 Nationals on this same site (the Z-11 is pictured there). Ran the 409 in SS/S at the 62 Nats. Received the Z-11 the next Winter and raced in '63.
To your point, when could you actually buy a '69 427/425 Camaro from the factory? Few had them from the factory, and I tried to buy one from my dealer - no dice !!! I settled for a 375hp 396 SS Camaro. Later people like Baldwin and Yenko made them. Back in those days NHRA forced the OEM Manuf. to make at least 50 before they would consider them into S and S/S. Geez, where have I heard that lately ????? My SS/EA started out as a 69 6 cyl Camaro.

We have met the enemy and they are US.

Go to this thread: http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...enko+chevrolet

There is more than enough info including a picture of Yenko Chevrolets back lot with a whole pile of the 427 COPO cars all of which were factory built. The picture is funny in that they have those cars just lying around like an ordinary car lol.