Trump found guilty!

[Jeff Niceswanger]

Originally Posted by jmcarter

Everyone has their own perspective on unions but I can share mine based on managing a team of 200 machinist members of the IAM. Negotiating contracts and the language for distribution of overtime and such was never a huge problem. Hourly rate was always negotiated fairly easily unless the fully burdened rate would render our products too costly to compete. Larger issues were implementing productivity and/or quality improvements that the union felt could chip away at the total number of paying members. The poor performers were shielded by the union because again, the number of paying members were of the utmost importance to the union, not the productivity of the shop. A huge amount of my time was devoted to the discussion and arbitration of fairly petty issues. After two years in that role I was relieved to return to managing salaried employees, not to mention cutting my workweek from 70 to 50 hours

Hi Jim
We found that the issue you speak of on any type of poor performance issue with select members was entirely the lazy company bosses that did not want to go through the correct, agreed upon process. The contract specifically lays out the steps taken to reprimand or terminate. It's agreed upon by both sides in negotiations. Bosses just don't want to mess with it. Many times, if they did actually do the process right, their previous inaction on buddy's, relatives, or favorites stopped a valid write up. When joe blows drinking buddy did the same identical violations last year and nobody said a Dag gone thing... why? One thing a local cannot tolerate is favoritism. Do it right or don't do it. We were fine with reprimand write ups and encouraged them if members were causing other members increased workloads at no fault of their own. We had nothing to do with the hiring or number of members in the workforce. That was clearly written up in Management Rights. They own the place; they staff it to their desire. Not real sure how your commits on staffing related to the local as most Management Rights are very similar. We did sit in on the interviews as the company wanted our input. Sometimes we could spot BS when management couldn't.

[Eddies66]

Originally Posted by Jeff Niceswanger

Hi Jim
We found that the issue you speak of on any type of poor performance issue with select members was entirely the lazy company bosses that did not want to go through the correct, agreed upon process. The contract specifically lays out the steps taken to reprimand or terminate. It's agreed upon by both sides in negotiations. Bosses just don't want to mess with it. Many times, if they did actually do the process right, their previous inaction on buddy's, relatives, or favorites stopped a valid write up. When joe blows drinking buddy did the same identical violations last year and nobody said a Dag gone thing... why? One thing a local cannot tolerate is favoritism. Do it right or don't do it. We were fine with reprimand write ups and encouraged them if members were causing other members increased workloads at no fault of their own. We had nothing to do with the hiring or number of members in the workforce. That was clearly written up in Management Rights. They own the place; they staff it to their desire. Not real sure how your commits on staffing related to the local as most Management Rights are very similar. We did sit in on the interviews as the company wanted our input. Sometimes we could spot BS when management couldn't.

Getting management to do their job was always a challenge, whether it was bonuses, performance evals, counseling, PIPs. They are either lazy or uneducated.

[Eddies66]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

RTW is about letting employees keep their hard earned money and not donate to the historical thuggery of unions. Have you forgotten, I was once a union steward for the Teamsters before I was a manager a Fortune 500 company. I've lived on and seen both sides and prefer employees being able to walk up to a manager and have a conversation without consulting the union first. Who issued your pay check and probably paid for most of what you have? The company. You have them to thank not a greedy union that takes your money. Have a nice day. No need for unions anymore.

The International Union of Operating Engineers is comprised of more than 400,000 members throughout the United States and Canada. Answer me this, who going to get the better health and dental insurance, who is going to get a pension vice a 401k that the individual pays for, who is going to work in a safe environment. Who is more likely to be screwed out of prevailing wage when working a public works job?????

[SStockDart]

[QUOTE=Eddies66;698384]Getting management to do their job was always a challenge, whether it was bonuses, performance evals, counseling, PIPs. They are either lazy or uneducated.[/QUOTE
If they are ALWAYS a problem, you need to look in the mirror for allowing mediocrity to happen. Fire them.

You might be surprised how "random drug and alcohol" tests on Monday morning will weed out the undesirables, union or non-union.

[nickh]

Originally Posted by Eddies66

The International Union of Operating Engineers is comprised of more than 400,000 members throughout the United States and Canada. Answer me this, who going to get the better health and dental insurance, who is going to get a pension vice a 401k that the individual pays for, who is going to work in a safe environment. Who is more likely to be screwed out of prevailing wage when working a public works job?????

Sorry but in the refinery petrochemical industry your non union labor always has the best safety record! Have seen it first hand, it takes 4 people to do the job of 2 seen that first hand too. Also the bill rate to the customer is way higher than ours, please understand with the high bill rates we ALL pay for that. Look at auto manufacturers up their msrp rates 20 to 30 percent!! why you have 1 guy that drives a forklift delivering parts to the assembly line making 43 an hour! really we all pay through the nose for union labor, without justification! JMO

Example: Non Union company bids on a job at 86 an hour bill rate and has excellent safety record

The a Union Contractor has subpar safety record, bill rate is 110 per hour and they have twice as many people as non union!

who will you pick?

[SStockDart]

This "healthy" conversation started when someone said "-I will always vote to support unions". How about if someone changes the wording and says "I will always vote for someone that pays me more welfare, or gives me an Obama phone, or gives me free medical?
I prefer voting for someone that will close the border, kick out illegal invaders, reduce inflation, reduce/eliminate CRIME/punish criminals/ 90 day death penalty for murder with 3 credible witness', fentanyl dealers, child molesters,. abortion should be a state by state issue, allow prayer in school. No school debt payoff. Massive reduction in foreign payments. I will vote for whoever does the most of these whether republican, democrat, or Elmer Fudd.

[Jeff Niceswanger]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

This "healthy" conversation started when someone said "-I will always vote to support unions". How about if someone changes the wording and says "I will always vote for someone that pays me more welfare, or gives me an Obama phone, or gives me free medical?
I prefer voting for someone that will close the border, kick out illegal invaders, reduce inflation, reduce/eliminate CRIME/punish criminals/ 90 day death penalty for murder with 3 credible witness', fentanyl dealers, child molesters,. abortion should be a state by state issue, allow prayer in school. No school debt payoff. Massive reduction in foreign payments. I will vote for whoever does the most of these whether republican, democrat, or Elmer Fudd.

You're talking about me. And yes, I will always vote for who supports me and my family. I've never been on welfare, never had a free phone, and never had free healthcare. But you're implying I have or value these. What's with you? I'm about to shed the kid gloves Mr. Gary. I have all the abilities of being a total dick. After a decade of dealing with your type, I'm capable. I refrain as we are all (supposed) to be racer buds.
I noticed you did not reply to my reply on your smart assss "How bout this" thread....The one I shot holes through by explaining in detail how the union kept me in a nice defined pension. All while our sister nonunion plants over in Sparks Nevada lost theirs. Right to Work gave those people a real whippin. And we have always enjoyed better wages, benefits, retirements, healthcare, and working conditions. Can't you just accept we have different circumstances? I don't harp for you to see things my way, but your adamit I'm in the wrong for voting differently than you. I don't see it that way whatsoever. It must be a management thing where condescending is the only way to evaluate. I was never management material. I could never suck that much a***. Just not for me.

[SStockDart]

I am not trying to change your mind about unions. I'm trying to change how people vote for singular issues. Like: I'm not going to vote for Biden because he took a crap on stage in France. Or, I'm not going to vote for Trump because he said "grab her by the p---" how about voting for what is good for our country, in your opinions.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

This "healthy" conversation started when someone said "-I will always vote to support unions". How about if someone changes the wording and says "I will always vote for someone that pays me more welfare, or gives me an Obama phone, or gives me free medical?

Gary, Jeff will never understand that "I will always vote to support unions" and "I will always vote for someone that pays me more welfare" will "always" be the same statement.
He will not understand that sometimes what is better for the country as a whole isn't necessarily what is better for him.

[Eddies66]

[QUOTE=SStockDart;698392]

Originally Posted by Eddies66

Getting management to do their job was always a challenge, whether it was bonuses, performance evals, counseling, PIPs. They are either lazy or uneducated.[/QUOTE
If they are ALWAYS a problem, you need to look in the mirror for allowing mediocrity to happen. Fire them.

You might be surprised how "random drug and alcohol" tests on Monday morning will weed out the undesirables, union or non-union.

You would be surprised, that if management did there part how quickly I could terminate one's employment with the Federal Government.