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Old Yesterday, 10:13 PM   #91
Mike Pearson
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Default Re: AHFS at Indy?

As I remember about a year ago they polled the racers and it was overwhelming voted to keep the indexes the same and make the corrections with the AHFS. Lowering the index does nothing to improve parity in the classes. Only hurts the guys at the bottom of the sheet. Car counts are not what they used to be. Lowering the indexes will not bring more cars to the track. Fast guys have the choice to run all out or hold back. If you are racing a combo that can run way under including under the trigger then you could get a hit at any time. Realistically there was very few HP hits at the end of the season last year.
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Old Yesterday, 11:19 PM   #92
KRatcliff
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Default Re: AHFS at Indy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Dona SS3269 View Post
It?s been roughly 15 years since the last index and AHFS adjustment rule changes better accepted parts ,R&D have made anyone working on their stuff faster making easier to run .85 under and that?s all you have to avg to get HP along with 2 sec under triggers . If we leave the indexes or the .85 avg numbers the same we will keep putting weight in our cars . I?ll use the 255 that got instant HP on Monday as an example that combo has been race for 56 years did it really need that much power obviously he spent good money bought the best he could buy and was in great conditions and now everyone that has that combo that chose not to buy the best stuff and I totally understand that got their combo pretty much destroyed in one run. We also just watched a heads up final in stock at a track that?s not known for being fast if that race happens at Gainesville they are both probably getting Hp on Monday and not just 5 enough to move a class. At some point either the AHFS numbers need adjusted or adjust the indexes and leave the AHFS numbers the same . Like Andrew said in his post 91 stockers were a sec under at Indy not Gainesville . The last adjustment we took a .30 hit and the trigger went from 1.15 to 1.0 I do not recall what the avg was . This gave everyone a little cushion the guy on a budget wasn?t get hp from someone that?s buying the latest greatest stuff we are there again.
I understand what you are saying, but the index change doesn't impact a single combo. It affects all combos in that class. What was the instant HP before the .30 reduction in the index? -1.50? Then they dropped it to -1.20 after the .30 reduction.

Index changes only affects qualifying and positions on the ladder if you do not do it universally. Then it is only semantics if you do it universally. I have yet to understand how an index change would target a soft combo without affecting more fairly factored combos.

Then you have a scenario in Super Stock where there are 5 classes with a 11.00 index. SS/K, SS/JA, SS/TD, FSS/M, & SS/PHA (whatever that is). One or more of the cars in those particular classes my have a super soft index, but none of them would be a heads up situation if they line up against another class even though it shares the same index.

Soft or not indexes only affect qualifying at a fairly rare event that has more than 128 cars which Indy is one and sometimes Bowling Green. I know there are a few more that pop up and they are pretty cool to see. But qualifying high on the sheet or even number 1 doesn't seem to be a big factor in winning overall.

All that being said I am not opposed to lowering the indexes, but I don't see the point if the triggers are lowered along with it.

Last edited by KRatcliff; Yesterday at 11:24 PM.
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Old Today, 07:02 AM   #93
james schaechter
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Default Re: AHFS at Indy?

I think the soft indexes are not across the board which makes it difficult to fix. I agree hacking them all just pulls cars away from the trigger potentially but won?t change the spread. In fact the cars that can go the fastest benefit the most.

I don?t see nhra doing that anyway. Their lawyers don?t want to have to deal with any decisions at all.

If nhra were to make rule changes for that rewarded performance, ahfs would work a lot better than it does now.
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Old Today, 08:09 AM   #94
Jeff Dona SS3269
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Default Re: AHFS at Indy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KRatcliff View Post
I understand what you are saying, but the index change doesn't impact a single combo. It affects all combos in that class. What was the instant HP before the .30 reduction in the index? -1.50? Then they dropped it to -1.20 after the .30 reduction.

Index changes only affects qualifying and positions on the ladder if you do not do it universally. Then it is only semantics if you do it universally. I have yet to understand how an index change would target a soft combo without affecting more fairly factored combos.

Then you have a scenario in Super Stock where there are 5 classes with a 11.00 index. SS/K, SS/JA, SS/TD, FSS/M, & SS/PHA (whatever that is). One or more of the cars in those particular classes my have a super soft index, but none of them would be a heads up situation if they line up against another class even though it shares the same index.

Soft or not indexes only affect qualifying at a fairly rare event that has more than 128 cars which Indy is one and sometimes Bowling Green. I know there are a few more that pop up and they are pretty cool to see. But qualifying high on the sheet or even number 1 doesn't seem to be a big factor in winning overall.

All that being said I am not opposed to lowering the indexes, but I don't see the point if the triggers are lowered along with it.
I guess what I?m trying to say is with the rule changes and more excepted replacement heads it has become easier for a combination that isn?t soft to meet the requirements to receive hp . They don?t have to lower the indexes I?m just saying they need to make adjustments so it?s not so easy to get hp. The . 65 and lower runs not counting is one the guys on a budget that choose not to get the latest stuff don?t count and the higher % of hp is a little out of control I can?t imagine having a car with aftermarket head getting 15 hp and having to add 150 lbs to it because if your already running the higher class the aftermarket heads won?t move the natural class. Go back and look at the HP adjustments that were done in January most of them are older combos that have been given aftermarket head and carburetors . Idk it just seems pointless to me to keep spending money in a performances based class to keep adding weight. The bar should always move if your sitting still you’re backing up.

Last edited by Jeff Dona SS3269; Today at 10:09 AM.
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Old Today, 10:51 AM   #95
SDT1DYI
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Default Re: AHFS at Indy?

How about having two different classes for the same combo in Stock Eliminator.
Example would be 1 G/SA class has an index of 12.00 the other lower. Say 11.00 (for easy math). The 11.00 index car carry a unique letter designation.
All the same current rules applied to both cars.
If both cars have a heads up, its a dial race.
If a 11.0 index G/SA car races another same index car , its no dial , same for two 12.00 index cars.
Ladders are based on runs under you class index.
Call the class what ever you want, make the lower index 1. Under, .8 under. .5 under.
But this way the really fast guys can keep it matted and race each other without getting Horse Powered on Monday.
The guys that chose not to run with the lower index CAN and race a fast index same combo in a non heads up round.
Problem Solved ( well almost lol)
AHFS will never accomplish what NHRA intend it to .

Steve Teeter Stk/SS 620/7888
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Old Today, 10:54 AM   #96
KRatcliff
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Default Re: AHFS at Indy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Dona SS3269 View Post
I guess what I?m trying to say is with the rule changes and more excepted replacement heads it has become easier for a combination that isn?t soft to meet the requirements to receive hp . They don?t have to lower the indexes I?m just saying they need to make adjustments so it?s not so easy to get hp. The . 65 and lower runs not counting is one the guys on a budget that choose not to get the latest stuff don?t count and the higher % of hp is a little out of control I can?t imagine having a car with aftermarket head getting 15 hp and having to add 150 lbs to it because if your already running the higher class the aftermarket heads won?t move the natural class. Go back and look at the HP adjustments that were done in January most of them are older combos that have been given aftermarket head and carburetors . Idk it just seems pointless to me to keep spending money in a performances based class to keep adding weight. The bar should always move if your sitting still you?re backing up.
The aftermarket heads have their own HP factor so it doesn't affect the racers using factory heads (I think you use the factory heads). You are right that a HP hit to the aftermarket heads do not affect the natural class because it is tied to the factory heads.

Running the extra weight comes with the territory when HP is added and the aftermarket head combos can drop down a class from the natural if extra weight is somehow an issue for their car.

I am a numbers and money guy. I will be one of the first to recognize that few of us are doing it for the money (IHRA is trying to shake this up). It is the thrills, sense of accomplishment, and connections that I make. Those three things rank way above the money for me otherwise I wouldn't do this at all.
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