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Old 12-25-2009, 11:13 AM   #91
Ed Wright
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Default Re: Think about this.........

Yes, but it ain't gonna change because a few old men keep cryng about it on an internet message board. Also, some get tired of the endless long posts complaining about it.

Only a person with a lower class car that doesn't have to give a lot of spots think the faster car has all the advantages, and thinks the "dirty tree" / "clean tree" talk is B.S.
I usually leave first, but with the rule like it is I still prefer leaving first. No car leaving in the other lane or lights coming down on the other side of the tree to distract me. I'm not the only one that will tell you that.

I know, guys say I need to "FOCUS!", but also "JUST DON'T RED LIGHT!"

Just because the faster car went ahead and left instead of sitting on the converter or 2 step does not mean they would have been red if the slower car weren't red. If I spot a car and it goes red, I just say "I'm gone" and leave. I don't spot many by a lot, so won't be a half second red. I know several others in faster cars that do the same thing. People can whine all they want, but the rule is what it is.

May as well give it a rest.
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Old 12-25-2009, 11:46 AM   #92
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Default Re: Think about this.........

[QUOTE=bill dedman;158823]Alan, Mike, and Ed, I'll give it up when any one of the three of you can give me a logical reason why it should NOT be changed.

I have never heard one... and, I'm waiting.

Bill Dedman, I'm not Alan, Mike or Ed but I've got a little bit of experience with being the "slow" car so I'd like to take a "logical" crack at it if you don't mind me playing.
The way I look at it I'm taking the risk of being the first one to foul but I'm gaining a "clean" look at the tree and the track. Now before you go questioning what the track has to do with it let me finish. One of the better racers in my division would almost always have a terrible (.100+) light against me and knowing that he's better than that I asked him about it and was very suprised by his answer. He told me that my car is always passing behind the tree just as his tree is coming down and it distracts the "hell" out of him. I'll take that advantage.
Now I've got the advantage of a clean tree, distracting my opponent by passing through his field of vision AND if the spot is long enough, I get to watch your light. Now I can't tell you if your light is a .000 or an .020 but I can tell you if you had a good one or a bad one and that just might help me at the finish line.
Now I've gone and given up all of my secrets (almost)
That's as "logical" as it gets Bill.
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:11 PM   #93
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Default Re: Think about this.........

Bill, the reason(s) I "don't do anything about it" are 1) I don't care as strongly as you do about it 2) I quit racing three years ago, so even if it were to change, it doesn't affect me 3) it wouldn't make me hurry back to racing until NHRA/IHRA pull their heads out of their rear ends and fix the other problems that are more important than the Christmas tree (payouts, run schedule, race formats, entry fees, 1/8 mile racing, getting bumped for whatever flavor-of-the-week eliminator is there, T/S, T/D, Sportsman Motorcycle, Snowmobiles, etc). Like I stated earlier, you should take this issue up with NHRA/IHRA, Compulink/TSI/Accutime and the other electonics people. They are the ones that can change it. Not Kenny, not the moderators and not the readers of this great Forum. I'll give you an example. A few years ago, there were a few racers with 1964-1966 Mercury 289's, in Super Stock and SS/GT that were very fast (this was before the AHFS was in place). NHRA hit all the 1964-66 289 cars, Ford and Mercury, five HP. Problem was, the Mercury's had a 600 cfm carb, and the Fords had a 480 carb. Instead of complaining on here for weeks, Alex and others sent e-mails and petitions to NHRA, showing the error and NHRA took the five HP off of the Ford 289, as they should have. Point is, you need to talk to the people that can actually change the problem, not debate it on here. I will agree with one thing--I doubt NHRA/IHRA would change it. Maybe, just maybe, if hundreds of Class Racers were to e-mail/call NHRA and request the Tree be changed, they would consider it, and maybe even do it. Unlikely, but would be worth the shot. If enough people wanted it changed. From what I've read from your numerous posts about this subject, not too many people (publicly, anyway) support your position. Why, who knows. I guess everyone has their reasons. Maybe Ken could start a poll on this subject. I drove for Billy Nees for several years, and I can agree with what he said. I drove Billy's HF/SA Sunbird. A 17-18 second car. When racing a 10 or low 11 second car, I could leave, shift into second and watch the tree count down for my opponent. I could tell if the racer had a good light or bad, and could help me (sometimes) at the finish line. In that respect, this was just two of the advantages to driving a slow car. I also had several disadvantages. There are some advantages to each. Each racer, knowing the rules beforehand, can weigh all the advantages for each type of car (slow and fast) and choose which type of car he or she wants.

Bottom line is, if I ever do come back to driving, if the tree is worst redlight loses--great, another advantage to me. If the tree is first redlight loses, oh well, I'll have to work on not redlighting and put the pressure on my opponent. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, Bill. I do hope that you take my advice, I think we'd all be better off.
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Old 12-25-2009, 02:43 PM   #94
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Default Re: Think about this.........

Based on the text a couple guys have written, here's what I've learned:

1) You guys drive slow cars.
2) You're old (bragging about what you were doing "back in the day," commenting on things that happened "probably before I was born," etc.)

So it looks like we have some grumpy old men in slow cars.

How often are there double red-lights where the first red-light wasn't the worst anyway?

Why don't you focus your efforts with people who can make a difference? I actually don't car one way or another. I just thought it would be interesting to see where you all stood. I won't invade this debate again.

Thanks.
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:16 PM   #95
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Default Re: Think about this.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyracer View Post
Based on the text a couple guys have written, here's what I've learned:

1) You guys drive slow cars.

>>>> And you are ready to take on Schumacher in Top Fuel?

2) You're old (bragging about what you were doing "back in the day," commenting on things that happened "probably before I was born," etc.)

>>>>>> No. We're talking about accomplishments, records, class win and Wally. Things I doubt you know anything about. I've never seen Indy Racer qualified anywhere.

So it looks like we have some grumpy old men in slow cars.

>>>>> No.Wrong again. We are seasoned ,veteran racers, and can prove it.

How often are there double red-lights where the first red-light wasn't the worst anyway?

>>>>>> Quite often, if you pay attention.

Why don't you focus your efforts with people who can make a difference? I actually don't car one way or another. I just thought it would be interesting to see where you all stood. I won't invade this debate again.

>>>> Good idea. Don't embarrass yourself any further.

Thanks.
>>>>> You're welcome
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:29 PM   #96
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Default Re: Think about this.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone View Post
No.Wrong again. We are seasoned ,veteran racers, and can prove it.
You drive a 14+ second car. That is slow.
"Seasoned" and "veteran" seems to equal "old" and based on your posts, you are "grumpy."

Thus, you are a grumpy old man driving a slow car.

You can use any adjective that makes you feel warm and fuzzy, but the facts are the same: Grumpy. Old. Slow.

So keep bragging about yourself. If you were so good you wouldn't have to complain about all the red-light losing you apparently do.

And by the way - I'm sure virtually everyone on this site, including of course you, is better than me. Some people come to learn, some come to brag. I am one. You are the other.
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:47 PM   #97
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Default Re: Think about this.........

[QUOTE=Indyracer;

And by the way - I'm sure virtually everyone on this site, including of course you, is better than me. Some people come to learn, some come to brag. I am one. You are the other.[/QUOTE]

Well, Indyracer, you're right about something anyway! Mark's not braging he's making statements about his accomplishments.

Take his advice and stop embarassing yourself.

You would be wise to take your storebought dragster chassis, put your storebought RMS motor in it and go race with your buddies somewhere, stop on the way home, have a few beers and brag about how fast you went today.
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Old 12-25-2009, 03:55 PM   #98
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Default Re: Think about this.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Nees View Post
Well, Indyracer, you're right about something anyway! Mark's not braging he's making statements about his accomplishments.

Take his advice and stop embarassing yourself.

You would be wise to take your storebought dragster chassis, put your storebought RMS motor in it and go race with your buddies somewhere, stop on the way home, have a few beers and brag about how fast you went today.
Look! Another grumpy guy! You guys are the best!

And for what it's worth, I drive a door car. I do my own wrenching. And 100% of everything on my car has been done by myself. I run S/Pro brackets and S/Gas. And I'm a lot closer to Schumacher's ET than I am to Mark's. But who cares? Not me. Am I seasoned ("old")? Nope. I'm not bragging about me. But you grumpy old slow guys keep bringing it up.

If I wanted to drive a 14 second car I'd go pull 6 plug wires. LOL. See how fun this can be? I love it when you guys gang up on someone. I have big shoulders. Bring it on.

Last edited by JMatt; 12-25-2009 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:15 PM   #99
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Default Re: Think about this.........

Sometime you should try and make a 20 second car into a 14 second car using the stock topend of the engine. There's more personal satisfaction there than just buying and bolting on parts.
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Old 12-25-2009, 04:39 PM   #100
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Default Re: Think about this.........

Wow, someone mentioned 6 plug wires... must have been talking about what I race... Oh, that can't be mine ... 14 seconds is tooooo slow.. about 5 seconds slower than mine...was that you, Billy?
Humm...I wonder how old we were when our Smart a** attitude turned to Grumpy? Oh!
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