AHFS Changes. - Page 2

SDT1DYI · 12-12-2022, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Pearson

I say leave the AHFS the way it is. There is no perfect fix for the inequalities in our type of racing. The system that is in place now has worked to some extent over the years. There will always be some combos that are softer than others and as long as the racers with those combos protect their combos they will continue to run as fast as they please.
Personally I have a slow combo in SS that will not hit the trigger so i can run all out. There are plenty in my class that can run a second under and I have nothing for them. If I get a heads up and get beat I just load up and head home and get ready for the next race. I am now 64 years old and I still enjoy racing super stock. I cant compete heads up with the guys that spend 30-40K on an engine another 10K on a trans and converter. Even if I could I wouldn't spend that much to race for a $1200 to $1500 purse and some contingency that wont pay even if you win. I do this for fun no to make money although its nice to win a bit now and then. I plan to continue to race as long as my health will allow me too
Really the choice is up to each racer to decide how they want to race and what motivates them. If you want to spend money and go fast then you have to be willing to take the hit when it comes and not complain. If you want to race on a budget then you have accept that you will get beat on a heads up with a faster car in your class. Not all of us are wealthy and retired. I still work a 10 hr day then get in the truck and drive 8-10 hours to get to a race and be up in the morning ready to go the next day. I race within my means.

Mike well said. There's a lot of racers with similar thoughts about racing. Please keep racing for as long as you can..
Yes you can not please everyone, but NHRA seems to please no one.
There are those that can afford
A 100K COPO. There are those that do most of the work themselves and run fast. And there are those that love racing and have a tight budget. The big budget guys don't always win
That's what makes Stock or SS Eliminator interesting.
The big budget guys that just write a check don't always win. My point is we need every type of competitor in Stock and SS.
This Lastest 12-6 AHFS, Penalizes one group.
If any of the not so fast guys believe , penalizing the fast guys is good for Stock and SS racing as a whole, you should consider
These points.

1. These fast cars devolpe parts that end up available to everyone 2. Fast cars are of source of parts to purchase at much lower prices.
3. Faster cars increase the value of your car indirectly.
4. New racers getting into Stk and SS , look first at what cars and combos are fast and may buy the same Combo that's not so fast that is for sale.
5. I have found most all the fast guys will share info and be helpful if you ask in an intelligent performance question in a respectful manner. ( Yes up to a point , and some with not ).

As Barry said, what this lastest 12-6 revised AHFS will cause is a lot of slow runs and hard braking and a degrading of what was called a Performance Class.

Steve Teeter Stk/SS 620

Don Kennedy · 12-13-2022, 09:42 AM

Ever since the beginning of Drag racing racers have been always figuring out a way to win or beat the system it is what we all need to remember NHRA has been for us for many years regardless of what some racers think I know that NHRA makes decisions based on what is good for the racers, good for the fans and good for them as an organization, etc, now as in all cases someone will think that they have a better answer as we all are opinionated of course but NHRA has and always be around and have been very successful in providing a playing field for the racer to race . They always try to tweak the system for the Good of the majority of the racers in my opinion, now all need to let go of the Button and go to dinner I will buy maybe enjoy your ride

Doug Hoven · 12-19-2022, 04:16 PM

Just a question from a lower portion of the sheet qualifier here. How is the AHFS ever supposed to work when those with what are the arguably soft combinations in question do everything in their power to keep the system from working? Before I get the response of "just work on your car," there are a lot of combinations that no matter how much time and money you throw at them, are still going to be sitting ducks when it comes time for a heads up. Personally, I gave up on the combo in the car I have been racing because no matter how hard I tried (Including changing camshafts weekend to weekend, changing cam timing between qualifying runs, and making countless torque converter changes) I found myself trying to gain back lost ET more often than actually making any progress. Oh well, I guess those that want to try and beat the system will just have to have fun trying to bracket race a car with no timing, lots of weight, restrictor plates, throttle limiters, etc. until enough people complain to NHRA that the AHFS needs to be changed again. Or we can try out probably the best way to deter new, less wealthy racers from building a stocker and lower the indexes a few tenths. Maybe raise the entry fee while we're at it too.

RULER · 12-19-2022, 10:40 PM

Some combos are just not good too start with that’s why you have to look for something that is likely to work. You also have to be willing to spend money for the best of everything if you want to have a chance at being fast. That being said stock and super stock aren’t for everyone, if you just want to bracket race NHRA has a class for that that will save you a lot of money it’s called bracket racing, pro bracket comes to mind they run it at your local track most weekends.

Billy Nees · 12-20-2022, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RULER

Some combos are just not good too start with that’s why you have to look for something that is likely to work. You also have to be willing to spend money for the best of everything if you want to have a chance at being fast. That being said stock and super stock aren’t for everyone, if you just want to bracket race NHRA has a class for that that will save you a lot of money it’s called bracket racing, pro bracket comes to mind they run it at your local track most weekends.

Isn't the AHFS supposed to "help" the "not so good" combos (Capt. Jack's "Automatic Help For Slugs" comes to mind)? I have to say that with the time that it takes NOW to get a couple of HP off of a "not so good" combo the AHFS isn't working for them either.

I don't think, in Doug's case that it's a matter of spending money. It's more a matter of not B.S.ing the people in charge to get the "handouts" that are needed in order to go fast in S/SS in today's game (Yes, it has become a game).

"Stock and Super Stock aren't for everyone". You're right! So why aren't you explaining to the Racers who are running 375 HP Chevys, FE FFFords and BB Mopars that with all of their "handouts" and "enhancements" they've gotten out of the NHRA over the years they SHOULD be running "Pro Bracket"!

At least the kid has the scrodes to race a REAL Stocker!

Ruler, do you even race? What's your REAL NAME?

GUMP · 12-20-2022, 10:17 AM

I have it on good authority that the NHRA is looking at the combinations that haven't received HP in the last ten years...

1347 · 12-20-2022, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RULER

Some combos are just not good too start with that’s why you have to look for something that is likely to work. You also have to be willing to spend money for the best of everything if you want to have a chance at being fast. That being said stock and super stock aren’t for everyone, if you just want to bracket race NHRA has a class for that that will save you a lot of money it’s called bracket racing, pro bracket comes to mind they run it at your local track most weekends.

Yes, in some cases bracket racing is an alternative, but is that the answer for someone who doesn't have a spare 5+ thousand dollars for cylinder heads? I'm not against having modern cylinder heads, but I'm not for killing the rules so that if you dont have them, you can't run the index.

Do you have a competitive Stock/SuperStock car? Or are you another one who sits in an ivory tower telling people what they should do without getting in the game? If you dont have a car, or if you never had one, maybe you can find a forum where people will value your opinion. .

J.R. Haddad · 12-20-2022, 12:34 PM

Duane, good post. One of the things I wonder about, is what effect is
this going to have on engine builders, cylinder head people, parts manufacturers, etc. If someone has a .90 to 1.00 second under car,
they still strived to make it better, certainly in the event of a heads up
run. And lets not forget the ego factor.
Now, with that same car, and if you don't see a lot of heads up runs where
you race, I think there is less motivation to spend money, to make it faster
when for sure whatever you spend is going back to the AHFS gods at
year end. In the past you could invest(did I say invest??) in your car,
pick it up when required, and go to 1 or 2 races and run 35-45 under
and clean it up. If you 1.25 under now, it will take a few more runs to clean it up, and shooting through a narrower target( .65-.84.9). It will be interesting to see where it all settles if there are no AHFS removed races.

J.R.

12-13-2022, 09:42 AM	#12
Don Kennedy VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Near Portland TN Posts: 1,557 Likes: 3,602 Liked 819 Times in 220 Posts	Re: AHFS Changes. Ever since the beginning of Drag racing racers have been always figuring out a way to win or beat the system it is what we all need to remember NHRA has been for us for many years regardless of what some racers think I know that NHRA makes decisions based on what is good for the racers, good for the fans and good for them as an organization, etc, now as in all cases someone will think that they have a better answer as we all are opinionated of course but NHRA has and always be around and have been very successful in providing a playing field for the racer to race . They always try to tweak the system for the Good of the majority of the racers in my opinion, now all need to let go of the Button and go to dinner I will buy maybe enjoy your ride __________________ Don Kennedy 7701 SS

12-19-2022, 04:16 PM	#13
Doug Hoven Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Jersey Posts: 187 Likes: 175 Liked 775 Times in 151 Posts	Re: AHFS Changes. Just a question from a lower portion of the sheet qualifier here. How is the AHFS ever supposed to work when those with what are the arguably soft combinations in question do everything in their power to keep the system from working? Before I get the response of "just work on your car," there are a lot of combinations that no matter how much time and money you throw at them, are still going to be sitting ducks when it comes time for a heads up. Personally, I gave up on the combo in the car I have been racing because no matter how hard I tried (Including changing camshafts weekend to weekend, changing cam timing between qualifying runs, and making countless torque converter changes) I found myself trying to gain back lost ET more often than actually making any progress. Oh well, I guess those that want to try and beat the system will just have to have fun trying to bracket race a car with no timing, lots of weight, restrictor plates, throttle limiters, etc. until enough people complain to NHRA that the AHFS needs to be changed again. Or we can try out probably the best way to deter new, less wealthy racers from building a stocker and lower the indexes a few tenths. Maybe raise the entry fee while we're at it too. __________________ 1189 F/SA Defunzalo Racing Enterprises

12-19-2022, 10:40 PM	#14
RULER Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 219 Likes: 15 Liked 57 Times in 17 Posts	Re: AHFS Changes. Some combos are just not good too start with that’s why you have to look for something that is likely to work. You also have to be willing to spend money for the best of everything if you want to have a chance at being fast. That being said stock and super stock aren’t for everyone, if you just want to bracket race NHRA has a class for that that will save you a lot of money it’s called bracket racing, pro bracket comes to mind they run it at your local track most weekends.

12-20-2022, 10:17 AM	#16
GUMP VIP Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Shelby, NC Posts: 1,680 Likes: 1,763 Liked 1,767 Times in 430 Posts	Re: AHFS Changes. I have it on good authority that the NHRA is looking at the combinations that haven't received HP in the last ten years... __________________ Daren Poole-Adams NHRA Stock/SS 2007

12-20-2022, 12:34 PM	#18
J.R. Haddad Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 661 Likes: 580 Liked 1,011 Times in 220 Posts	Re: AHFS Changes. Duane, good post. One of the things I wonder about, is what effect is this going to have on engine builders, cylinder head people, parts manufacturers, etc. If someone has a .90 to 1.00 second under car, they still strived to make it better, certainly in the event of a heads up run. And lets not forget the ego factor. Now, with that same car, and if you don't see a lot of heads up runs where you race, I think there is less motivation to spend money, to make it faster when for sure whatever you spend is going back to the AHFS gods at year end. In the past you could invest(did I say invest??) in your car, pick it up when required, and go to 1 or 2 races and run 35-45 under and clean it up. If you 1.25 under now, it will take a few more runs to clean it up, and shooting through a narrower target( .65-.84.9). It will be interesting to see where it all settles if there are no AHFS removed races. J.R.