What factors Determine Tow Rating - Page 4

Dan Fahey · 09-04-2018, 06:11 PM

Wow this got off on the deep end..

You guys changed the situation to fit your argument.
I know few Enclosed Trailers and Car that are at 7000 lbs.
Most weigh a lot more as Enclosed Trailers start at 2500 lbs.

Enclosed Trailers have aerodynamic and weigh distribution issues.
Especially when you add tools, parts, tires, extra fuel and fluids.
Then either passing or getting passed by a Tractor Trailer.

Yeah you better have something robust to handle your rig.
Again max weigh of my car and trailer is 6800 lbs.
Most of the time it is at 5650 or 5700 lbs and never an issue with wind.

I asked the question what Determines Tow Rating of a Tow Vehicle.

Closest clear comment was good Brakes, Axle.
Then another about Brake Controller and Hitch Setup.

Towing an Enclosed Trailer is a different beast.
I get it is better to have extra capacity, especially dealing with wind.

Nobody mentioned who had the better suspension.
Know that some owners add airbags to keep squat to a minimum.

Not comments about who had the best transmissions?
Little comment about engines, ie: 4.6, 5.0, 5.3 vs 6.2 or Diesel.

The Big Three are adding more Turbo Diesels.
How reliable are they over time.
How to maintain them over a gas engine?

D

james schaechter · 09-05-2018, 05:53 AM

All I know is that I have driven both ends of the spectrum on weight rating and the factory ratings seem to be written for flat ground normal conditions with no need for emergency braking and of course a brand new vehicle. If this fits you, read the brochure, drink the factory Kool aid and buy the cheapest one. It can certainly work in those conditions. I tend to keep my vehicles for hundreds of thousands of miles! I need more tolerance than the minimalist design for cost containment.

I have had a couple of duramax diesels and love them. The first was a 2002 LB7 stick shift that I ordered New and put 358k in before selling it. It is well over 400,000 Miles now.

The truck I have now is. 2007.5 duramax with Allison auto. Tows great, but the re-gen for the dpf is the most counter intuitive emissions solution, it burns more fuel to clean the filter. Crazy! I think we are still in the dark ages in terms of the emissions for diesels. If I was to buy a new truck, I would consider a gasser. The chevys make decent power with the 6.2.

You seem to want a half ton small engine. They make a max tow with. 300 hp 5.3 that would pull an open trailer with no issues.

nhramnl · 09-05-2018, 07:34 AM

Original Equipment Manufacturers who built 2010 emissions diesels have had an incredibly steep learning curve, that some never conquered. Caterpillar experienced a so total a failure of their design that they finally just threw in the towel and quit building on-road engines (off-road engines don't require DEF systems). I've owned 6.0 gas 2500 HD trucks for years, and as Jim suggests, the power is "adequate" but not impressive. No question diesels are stronger pullers, but with the state of diesel emissions technology that exists right now, I think gas trucks are simpler to own and far cheaper to buy.

nhramnl · 09-05-2018, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

Wow this got off on the deep end..

You guys changed the situation to fit your argument.
I know few Enclosed Trailers and Car that are at 7000 lbs.
Most weigh a lot more as Enclosed Trailers start at 2500 lbs.

Enclosed Trailers have aerodynamic and weigh distribution issues.
Especially when you add tools, parts, tires, extra fuel and fluids.
Then either passing or getting passed by a Tractor Trailer.

Yeah you better have something robust to handle your rig.
Again max weigh of my car and trailer is 6800 lbs.
Most of the time it is at 5650 or 5700 lbs and never an issue with wind.

I asked the question what Determines Tow Rating of a Tow Vehicle.

Closest clear comment was good Brakes, Axle.
Then another about Brake Controller and Hitch Setup.

Towing an Enclosed Trailer is a different beast.
I get it is better to have extra capacity, especially dealing with wind.

Nobody mentioned who had the better suspension.
Know that some owners add airbags to keep squat to a minimum.

Not comments about who had the best transmissions?
Little comment about engines, ie: 4.6, 5.0, 5.3 vs 6.2 or Diesel.

The Big Three are adding more Turbo Diesels.
How reliable are they over time.
How to maintain them over a gas engine?

D

You make a good point, Dan. We all focused on a 1/2 ton versus 3/4 ton debate. Take a read through this article. It does a pretty good job of answering the question I think you were originally asking.
http://www.trailerlife.com/towguides...t-tow-vehicle/

Dustin Ward · 09-05-2018, 04:04 PM

If you want to see the criteria that is used to determine how tow rating is actually calculated, look up "SAE J2807" on your favorite search engine.

This is the standard all auto companies use since about 2013 if my memory is correct.

"In response to the confusion that resulted when buyers wanted to compare maximum tow ratings, the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has developed the J2807 set of recommended practices. The tow test procedures designed by the big brains at the SAE consist of a series of rigorous real-world challenges to determine the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) of a vehicle and trailer combination."

Dan Fahey · 09-05-2018, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhramnl

You make a good point, Dan. We all focused on a 1/2 ton versus 3/4 ton debate. Take a read through this article. It does a pretty good job of answering the question I think you were originally asking.
http://www.trailerlife.com/towguides...t-tow-vehicle/

WOW this was a great article..!

The right Gearing is key for towing.
One of the comments on YouTube
The Canyon/Colorado come standard with a 3.42.
The Gas and Turbo Diesel did great up the Gauntlet.
It was commented that 3.73 would have been better for towing.
This one step up adds a good bit of towing capacity.

Seems what ever your are towing.
Rule of thumb was to not exceed 85% of the tow rating.

Another not discussed in the article was tuning the engine for towing.
Not sure if this breaks the Warrantee.
The extra torque from the Tune helps everywhere.

Not discuss were suspension other than Axles.
All rears squat, are air bags added as a towing option on trucks?

Not discussed were Cooling systems, best fluids to use.
Towing package you get bigger radiators and transmission coolers.

Not discussed were lubricants or trans fluid work best for towing.

Trailer Tires were discussed on another forum.

Found this from Discount Tire regarding load rating

https://www.discounttiredirect.com/l...818d10948e2a97

D

curtis reed · 09-06-2018, 09:56 AM

Dan here is a 1/2 ton shootout article for you to look over if you haven't seen it.

https://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/ha...days-1-winner/

Here is something to consider. Walk through those same pits that you looked at the tow vehicles from an earlier post and ask what the rated towing capacity of the ball, ball mount and hitch on their truck is. I bet you there won't be very many who can tell you without looking but they will tell you that you have to have a 3/4 ton or heavier.

I have a class IV hitch, 16000lb rated ball mount and 25000lb rated ball and I only tow a just under 7000lb 20' enclosed trailer. The new 1/2 ton trucks are not the 1/2 tons from even 15 years ago.

One question from an earlier reply. Does anyone see or hear of trucks sitting on the side of the road from losing c-clips??

Curtis

Dan Fahey · 09-06-2018, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtis reed

Dan here is a 1/2 ton shootout article for you to look over if you haven't seen it.

https://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/ha...days-1-winner/

Here is something to consider. Walk through those same pits that you looked at the tow vehicles from an earlier post and ask what the rated towing capacity of the ball, ball mount and hitch on their truck is. I bet you there won't be very many who can tell you without looking but they will tell you that you have to have a 3/4 ton or heavier.

I have a class IV hitch, 16000lb rated ball mount and 25000lb rated ball and I only tow a just under 7000lb 20' enclosed trailer. The new 1/2 ton trucks are not the 1/2 tons from even 15 years ago.

One question from an earlier reply. Does anyone see or hear of trucks sitting on the side of the road from losing c-clips??

Curtis

Thanks Curtis!
Seems to be Truck competition going on.
GM big trucks are much lighter and Turbo Diesel options.
Fords and Ram look great and nice comfortable interiors.
Along with better suspensions almost sports car like.

D

Barry Polley · 09-06-2018, 11:45 AM

Brakes!!! I see everything but better brakes. Higher Hp, bigger tow ratings but no big brake package. Most move up for better brakes, they go to commercial trucks just for the Jake and brake piece of mind.
Bottom line is you are asking a small truck to do the work of a larger. Small brakes do not get rid of heat, nor do radiators or trans coolers in smaller trucks.
If you do not exceed the rating you should be fine but most push it...

kdanner · 09-06-2018, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Polley

Brakes!!! I see everything but better brakes. Higher Hp, bigger tow ratings but no big brake package.

If you look up the brake dimensions of a current half ton and then just a 10 year old 3/4 ton, you'll find the new truck has the larger brakes of the 2.

09-04-2018, 06:11 PM	#31
Dan Fahey VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,114 Likes: 1,078 Liked 181 Times in 111 Posts	What factors Determine Tow Rating Wow this got off on the deep end.. You guys changed the situation to fit your argument. I know few Enclosed Trailers and Car that are at 7000 lbs. Most weigh a lot more as Enclosed Trailers start at 2500 lbs. Enclosed Trailers have aerodynamic and weigh distribution issues. Especially when you add tools, parts, tires, extra fuel and fluids. Then either passing or getting passed by a Tractor Trailer. Yeah you better have something robust to handle your rig. Again max weigh of my car and trailer is 6800 lbs. Most of the time it is at 5650 or 5700 lbs and never an issue with wind. I asked the question what Determines Tow Rating of a Tow Vehicle. Closest clear comment was good Brakes, Axle. Then another about Brake Controller and Hitch Setup. Towing an Enclosed Trailer is a different beast. I get it is better to have extra capacity, especially dealing with wind. Nobody mentioned who had the better suspension. Know that some owners add airbags to keep squat to a minimum. Not comments about who had the best transmissions? Little comment about engines, ie: 4.6, 5.0, 5.3 vs 6.2 or Diesel. The Big Three are adding more Turbo Diesels. How reliable are they over time. How to maintain them over a gas engine? D

09-05-2018, 05:53 AM	#32
james schaechter VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cumming GA Posts: 1,931 Likes: 1,090 Liked 1,225 Times in 250 Posts	Re: What factors Determine Tow Rating All I know is that I have driven both ends of the spectrum on weight rating and the factory ratings seem to be written for flat ground normal conditions with no need for emergency braking and of course a brand new vehicle. If this fits you, read the brochure, drink the factory Kool aid and buy the cheapest one. It can certainly work in those conditions. I tend to keep my vehicles for hundreds of thousands of miles! I need more tolerance than the minimalist design for cost containment. I have had a couple of duramax diesels and love them. The first was a 2002 LB7 stick shift that I ordered New and put 358k in before selling it. It is well over 400,000 Miles now. The truck I have now is. 2007.5 duramax with Allison auto. Tows great, but the re-gen for the dpf is the most counter intuitive emissions solution, it burns more fuel to clean the filter. Crazy! I think we are still in the dark ages in terms of the emissions for diesels. If I was to buy a new truck, I would consider a gasser. The chevys make decent power with the 6.2. You seem to want a half ton small engine. They make a max tow with. 300 hp 5.3 that would pull an open trailer with no issues. __________________ James Schaechter 3163 STK

09-05-2018, 07:34 AM	#33
nhramnl Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 504 Likes: 7 Liked 352 Times in 82 Posts	Re: What factors Determine Tow Rating Original Equipment Manufacturers who built 2010 emissions diesels have had an incredibly steep learning curve, that some never conquered. Caterpillar experienced a so total a failure of their design that they finally just threw in the towel and quit building on-road engines (off-road engines don't require DEF systems). I've owned 6.0 gas 2500 HD trucks for years, and as Jim suggests, the power is "adequate" but not impressive. No question diesels are stronger pullers, but with the state of diesel emissions technology that exists right now, I think gas trucks are simpler to own and far cheaper to buy.

09-05-2018, 04:04 PM	#35
Dustin Ward Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Renton Washington Posts: 35 Likes: 27 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: What factors Determine Tow Rating If you want to see the criteria that is used to determine how tow rating is actually calculated, look up "SAE J2807" on your favorite search engine. This is the standard all auto companies use since about 2013 if my memory is correct. "In response to the confusion that resulted when buyers wanted to compare maximum tow ratings, the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has developed the J2807 set of recommended practices. The tow test procedures designed by the big brains at the SAE consist of a series of rigorous real-world challenges to determine the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) of a vehicle and trailer combination."

09-06-2018, 09:56 AM	#37
curtis reed Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Kiefer, Ok. Posts: 139 Likes: 49 Liked 90 Times in 51 Posts	Re: What factors Determine Tow Rating Dan here is a 1/2 ton shootout article for you to look over if you haven't seen it. https://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/ha...days-1-winner/ Here is something to consider. Walk through those same pits that you looked at the tow vehicles from an earlier post and ask what the rated towing capacity of the ball, ball mount and hitch on their truck is. I bet you there won't be very many who can tell you without looking but they will tell you that you have to have a 3/4 ton or heavier. I have a class IV hitch, 16000lb rated ball mount and 25000lb rated ball and I only tow a just under 7000lb 20' enclosed trailer. The new 1/2 ton trucks are not the 1/2 tons from even 15 years ago. One question from an earlier reply. Does anyone see or hear of trucks sitting on the side of the road from losing c-clips?? Curtis

09-06-2018, 11:45 AM	#39
Barry Polley Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Vacaville Ca Posts: 758 Likes: 684 Liked 572 Times in 239 Posts	Re: What factors Determine Tow Rating Brakes!!! I see everything but better brakes. Higher Hp, bigger tow ratings but no big brake package. Most move up for better brakes, they go to commercial trucks just for the Jake and brake piece of mind. Bottom line is you are asking a small truck to do the work of a larger. Small brakes do not get rid of heat, nor do radiators or trans coolers in smaller trucks. If you do not exceed the rating you should be fine but most push it... __________________ Barry Polley 758 A/SA California- No place to race! Last edited by Barry Polley; 09-06-2018 at 11:56 AM.