Crate Motor Class

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Tony (Cratemotor), many of us have to wonder why anybody would build a car that could only run with one association? Why would a person not simply build one that could run with anywhere?

NHRA has so many classes, and cars (compared to IHRA) that why would anybody want to add more classes?

And our hard working tech people have to keep up with even more combinations?

I have been doing this since 1962, and have now seen both AHRA & IHRA come and go. Both had some "unusual" classes.

Logical thing to do would build a car that could run anyplace. Not expect others to make new rules to accommodate your poor choices.

You can't just make your car a legal Stocker?

You asked me this before like im some kind of moron. 2016 Nitro Joes shows over 50 CM cars. So i guess im not the only one who chose to back myself into a corner. In my geographical area we have (had) 2 tracks with in 3 hours driving distance that have (had) IHRA National or divisional races. So it made sence for me to build an IHRA combo. Plus, without making excuses, there is also 4 or more dirt circle track and 1 ashfalt track in a 5 hour radius so alot of the good castings have gone away with that stuff so yes it next to impossible to find heads and intakes. 330hp Crate motor uses 2 castings found on 96 and up 5.7L vortec engines and they flow real well and there is lots available. So it made sence at the time to move forward with the crate engine combo. And as for the hard working NHRA officials its maybe 10 more engines (ford, dodge and GM) that are identical to whats already there inspection wise. Your making it sound like we have some exotic stuff that is space age.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

Cost effective, reliable, fun.
Classes that does not require fragile pitchy super high winding expensive Stocker Engine.

Dan! I think you nailed it! I've got to start spinning the guts out of my stuff and paying more for it! I'm just having too much fun.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

The new generation of kids are not going to build a $50,000 Stocker.
They will buy a new car add headers, gears, converter, slicks, tune.

Sadly, no they won't.

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Sadly, no they won't.

Nope. The next generation of kids are spending half that, to race for twice as much.

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey

Concur !
FWIW I am gathering information focused on reviving the concepts of Pure Stock, Junior Stock and Crate Motor under one Class Structure.
If NHRA becomes interested can be merged into existing NHRA Classes Indexes.

One of the key elements developing rules are for the newer cars.
Would create a Bolt-On Class for Stock.
Reviving the Junior Stock for cars using the Blueprinted Cams.
Adding CM engines to add to the mix.
Use a Max Seat Pressure Spring Rule toning down the cam and add mufflers.

Cost effective, reliable, fun.
Classes that does not require fragile pitchy super high winding expensive Stocker Engine.
That was what Modified Production was suppose to be.

Looking at the 2066 and new generation aspirated cars like Chevy SS, Cudas, Darts, Mustangs, Caddys that have V-6's and V-8's.
Several racers were trying to get their late model combinations certified by IHRA before the boom.
Lot of Stocker guys had the new cars and wanted to race them in Pure Stock.
Got calls on it often.

The new cars and racers are the cornerstone of the future.
Flexibility of being able to use a larger engine in GT or easy to get CM helped IHRA a lot.

The new generation of kids are not going to build a $50,000 Stocker.
They will buy a new car add headers, gears, converter, slicks, tune.
Most are driveway mods and are racing then at the local tracks.
These Bolt On Classes were the rage when the LT1 Camaros and B-Bodys came out in the late 90's early 2000.

Another sources of cars are PureStockDrags.
Have been collaborating with some of the key members.

Crate Motor and GT were great ideas to extend Stock.
Loved the fact you can pop in a 455 in place of a 305 or 350.

Aftermarket industry loved the CM cars.
Now producing new Aluminum Replacement Heads based on original castings.
Stock Ports, Combustion chamber and screw in studs.

I see in the future a new rule coming allowing these Head Replacements and even intake manifolds for Stock.
Good original castings are scarce competing against the restoration industry.

One other thing and was a very true statement.
Most of us are well over 50, 60 and 70 years old.
In the next ten years most of us will be making other decisions.

Regardless if the new generation of racers are not invited they will look at other venues.
You have to market and sell to this generation or they will not come.

AND one day Class Racing will become a note in History Books.

D

Thanks for all your hard work! Maybe some day we wont be the black sheep of the herd. I cant believe how stubborn some people are when it comes to this stuff. Its the same as a traditional stocker with more HP, weight and if accepted 3 tenths off what the IHRA index was....so my stocker that will run .9 under is now .6 under....wow thats a huge threat on the qualifying sheet. Way less of a threat that any Copo or Drag Pack.

[tomcraig]

A drag pack, copo and cobra jets are nothing but crate motor cars.

[Dan Fahey]

Originally Posted by CrateCamaro

Thanks for all your hard work! Maybe some day we wont be the black sheep of the herd. I cant believe how stubborn some people are when it comes to this stuff. Its the same as a traditional stocker with more HP, weight and if accepted 3 tenths off what the IHRA index was....so my stocker that will run .9 under is now .6 under....wow thats a huge threat on the qualifying sheet. Way less of a threat that any Copo or Drag Pack.

Thank you CrateCamaro...
You don't get things done by being a Wall Flower.
Keep pushing until you get results!

My Dad taught us about persistence, work, especially to think.
Passion to succeed came from inside if you were going to survive ...!
He had his horrible side too like too much alcohol, mean and abusive.
But had his kind days and kept an eye out for us.
Like a home to come too when times were bad..and they did get bad.
For some reason would never come to any of my races. That hurt !

Last Dec 10th he passed away..
It was a tough end of year celebration!
Somehow it makes you stronger!

FWIW we are having a Good Conversation !
To make it clear I have never bashed anyone or any Racing Body or Association.
Have been interceptive, professional and polite in my responses.
Unlike some of the rude comments I have received.

I deeply respect the all the Automotive Associations.
They work their butts off to give us a platform to race.
Especially Refereeing rules that racers seem to find a nuance to.

The evolution and cost of Stock Eliminator has gone nuts!
Nobody bashed Bill Nees when he built his Dime Racers.
Yet racers are bashing others because they find more sensible ways to race.

PS, CM, GT were good solutions to extend the life of Stock.
NHRA had to create FI and FS Classes to meet a need.
NHRA does not have to invent anything to on-board these classes.

Regardless, adding any of the Classes did not kill IHRA or NHRA.
Some bone headed decisions did not help.

The NUMBER ONE Reason why Racers did not run IHRA ???
IHRA ran at 1/8th mile tracks.
It was the number one complaint on Class Racer why IHRA events were not attended.
This exacerbated the decisions that IHRA decided to take to survive.

At the Mike Carr S/SS TriState Meet at Mason Dixon.
The Southern Bracket Association Bracket Racers were bitterly complaining about having to run 1/8th mile.
Seems to be a huge pattern of expectations.
Though nothing wrong running 1/8th mile.

The BOTTOM LINE
IHRA failed because racers did not defend their sport !


Dan

[Tim H]

Originally Posted by CrateCamaro

I hate to revive this post thats almost 8 years old but i have to comment for the lost racers of IHRA stock. Its unbelievable how we are treated like outcasts that live in the land of misfit toys. Im 37 years old....got involved in IHRA Stock in 2008. Built a crate motor because i liked the idea. Ran .5 under my first year and was so proud but i wanted more. Worked on it, spent the money, did the research, lots of dynoing. Fast forward to 2016. Set the H/CM record in the worst conditions possible. It was like i won the world series. Something ill hold and be proud of for the rest of my life. So no im not looking for a pat on the back or a hero biscut. But my question is how many people in the 25 to 35 age group are building a stocker? Second question...how many NHRA stock racers are in the age group of 60 and up? What im trying to say is without bringing the IHRA combos into NHRA what will happen in 10 years? 20 years. Its a dying sport already. We need to stick together and help eachother out here. Have a look at the latest Nitro Joes and see how many CM / Pure Stock / GT Stock racers there are and now have nowhere to race. Sure NHRA purists will say who cares but we are all in this for the same reasons....because we live and breathe stock eliminator. We love the class. And no...crate motors are not the same as circle track crate engines....the combos are IDENTICAL to a traditional stocker build, just has a different casting number on the head. Imagine if the tables were turned here. Im sure alot of you were around when modified had their cords cut...probably not that great of a feeling. This is not any different. And no going bracket racing (et1 and et2) isnt an option id rather park it. If we were to be accepted into NHRA (by the negative feedback stretching back to 2009 it will never happen) we would already have to be hit with 3 tenths off the index. Reset the HP factors and go. Theres zero to loose and everything to gain here. And all kidding aside we are less of a threat then the super charged entrys of todays factory hotrods which i believe should have their own deal personally. Just a thought fellas.

X2 And I have seen your car run @ TMP a few years ago, as much fun to watch as the NHRA stockers that I cherish.

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by Tim H

X2 And I have seen your car run @ TMP a few years ago, as much fun to watch as the NHRA stockers that I cherish.

Thanks! We have worked real hard on it the last 9 years to make it what it is hence why im trying to voice my opinion. With the driving costs of fuel, parts, life in general its not easy to swallow the fact that we are being told we need a whole new combo to come play or dont play at all when at the end of the day its just numbers...numbers on parts which will create more numbers (racers) on the qualifying sheets. All theres old 60s parts are drying up not to mention that they are 50 years old and junk. Its a dying class...there isnt any teenagers that even understand what a stocker or super stocker really is...they understand John Force....nitro...pokemon, video games. They go get a hotdog when stock is called to the lanes. They use the bathroom when Suoer Stock is called. And lets not even talk about what they think when a throttle stop car goes down the track they think its broke. We need to have a more open mind about this instead of being so bias. Since ive started ive got alot of younger guys involved. I just talked a real close friend into buying a car and building a crate combo....bought the car...bought some parts...IHRA pulls out and hes stuck building a 305 or nothing at all now. 1 person doesnt seem like an issue but hes not alone. And every year that goes buy theres less and less cars showing up....guys get old and retire, some god forbid pass on while all these IHRA racers are sitting around with their thumbs in their rear waiting on approval from the gods. We just want to race and have a place to feel acepted.

[Birch motor cars]

Very well said Crate Camaro. I to have expressed my opinions and said the same as you, only to be herded to the rear of the bus like trash. I really think these hatters need to have a good look in the mirror. When all of the 60 + year old farts die off and the class dies maybe they will think differently about crates. You are correct about our engines not being any different then a part number. Besides all of the stuff in the rule book on different parts that are acceptable now just makes there engines more of a crate engine then what we run. Our combo is more stock and runs faster then what they run is why they cant stand us.