Manual trans only?

[SStockDart]

Originally Posted by Stephen & Horace Johnson

Yep you are correct!!!

Sorry for getting off track here. You are right and I am wrong...never too old to learn something. In 1964, Thunderbolt produced 51 automatics and 49 4 speeds.

[tommy d]

This is a great thread !

[Stephen & Horace Johnson]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

Sorry for getting off track here. You are right and I am wrong...never too old to learn something. In 1964, Thunderbolt produced 51 automatics and 49 4 speeds.

No prob sir!!

[Greg Reimer 7376]

Ford, once calling itself the Ford Family of Fine Cars, had a problem of parts interchangeability among engine families, trans groupings, and the like that knew no bounds, going all the way back to the 1950's.About the only fairly standardized unit was the 9 inch rear end, going all the way back.You Fordophiles would know way more about all this that I do, but within engine families, there are enough variations to drive you nuts. Doing an engine for my brother's 64 Falcon Sprint was a disaster. He made the classic mistake of putting an open plenum hi rise intake on his 260 with a big Holley, which was some improvement over the 2 barrel, but that carb was way too big for that motor. Add to that, a screw dropped out of the throttle body to the float bowl, and the engine ate the screw, some pistons, and cracked a cylinder wall. We decided to rebuild the motor, so out it came. He located a 289 block, missing one main cap, pretty cheaply. No cracks, it cleaned up at .030", but we needed to find a main cap and get it line bored and honed. More money. The cheap block wasn't so cheap. We used the 260 crank and rods, flat top 289 pistons, and had that balanced. I don't know what all had to come off the pistons, but I don't remember that being a problem. I assembled the short block, he got some 289 heads, and a cam,lifter and whatever else kit. I did the heads at school, took them home, we bolted the whole thing together and I installed the engine. When I put the steel stamped plate on the back of the block, lo and behold, wrong bolt pattern. He got a Lakewood scatter shield, block plate and all, I installed that. We couldn't have used a 66 Fairlane bell housing because the factory trans was a top loader, we had an iron BW T-10. That would have fit the block,but not the trans, hence the scatter shield. I got it all together, installed the starter, and upon attempting to start it, it cranked, but made a nasty,nasty noise while spinning the motor.Seemed that the 164 or so toothed Falcon 260 flywheel was about 4 teeth too small, a '66 Fairlane 289 4 speed flywheel was the right thing. Out came the trans(again),off came the scattershield, off came the flywheel, on went the new slightly larger unit, and we didn't get too far before we learned the Falcon pressure plate didn't bolt to the Fairlane flywheel. Too small. Off to the clutch shop, got the correct pressure plate, but had to use the slightly smaller Falcon clutch disc. T-10 and Top Loader had a different spline. Got this whole mess together, finished final assembly on everything, actually drove the Falcon,timed and adjusted everything,and when we were sitting at a signal, it was in first gear, I had my foot on the clutch, suddenly the clutch pedal hit the floor as I felt something break,and the car lurched forward,killing the engine. Fortunately, no one in front of us. The Z bar from the frame to the block broke. Got the car home, he went to the Ford dealer again, ordered a new Z bar. When I looked at it, I could see how it broke. It was pretty light duty. We took it to a welding shop, the guy there gusseted it, in it went, the Falcon was working!!! It was a real test of our patience, fortunately parts cost a lot less then than they do now. That was a lesson on engine rebuilding and adaptability you didn't find in a college auto shop manual. He should have bought a 66 Nova 283 4 speed instead of that Falcon Sprint.Hindsight,again,to the rescue,just not in time.

[Sean Marconette]

Originally Posted by Greg Reimer 7376

In an older combo, like my aging fleet of antique iron, some engine combos came with a manual trans only requirement in the Tech Bulletins. I need to update my tech bulletins, but does that stipulation still exist? Question revolves around a 68 Chevelle with a 327/325 horse engine in Stock . Has that manual trans rule been deleted?

Greg to further derail your thread!!

The 82 through 85 Mustang GT 5.0 cars were also stick only. Unless they had a CFI (Fords attempt at TBI), that engine combo was auto. A few years ago when the 82 5.0 was "enhanced with a lower HP" the classification guide did not state manual only. A few of these 82 Mustang GT's with an auto were built and in competition until the guide was clarified on the manual only. It would be unfortunate for a combo to suddenly be made illegal with the expense of a trans change. But if it was never a factory option, it would be like running the wrong carb, intake or head. Everyone that class races has an agenda and that is to push the rules. The clarification and getting a letter for a "paper car" is what it turns into.

Sean

[Greg Reimer 7376]

I guess the purpose behind the story regarding my brothers' 64 Falcon Sprint was to call attention to the nightmare that can ensue when converting stuff over, even though we did a simple engine rebuild that led to one thing after another. Had he had a Nova or a Chenille, the conversion to a 4 speed would have been far simpler. The thought in my mind was to try to imagine the nightmare of converting a '64 Fairlane from the big Lincoln trans to a 4 speed. FE stick parts were definitely around, but when did the top loader come out? Was a factory Thunderbolt 4 speed a T-10? That swap could have been a real problem.

[Bobby DiDomenico]

The 1972 351C High Output (low compression Boss 351) engine was stick shift only from Ford, IIRC I've seen a few racing with automatics.

[Rich Biebel]

My time spent working in a machine/engine shop easily confirms the Ford engine family parts issues stories...

I recall one attempted dyno session of a CJ 428 and the engine was literally trying to jump off the dyno stand !

The engines owner brought the wrong flywheel is all I can recall........don't recall the details on the parts issue....

Ford engines always seemed to create issues.....

Well we were GM racers.....not much on Fords....

My son-in-law has an original '66 Mustang 260 2 barrel carb, 4speed......
It sat for years and I had to swap parts from 2 starters to make one fit in there.

After freeing up the stuck carb and checking a few things, it started and ran so smooth you could balance a nickel on the intake.......ran flawless...

[jimmyparker]

I was told many years ago that parts from a Green Ford wouldn't work on a Blue Ford and vice versa.

[Rory McNeil]

Interesting, it appears that no Chevys were externally balanced?
All Chevys used the same diameter flywheel?
All Chevys used the same starters?
Funny, I have had person experiances with all these, and more. Like:
Some chevy blocks are missing motor mount bolt holes, starter mounting holes,threaded holes in the ends of the cylinder heads for bolting up incidentals, like alternators, no oil filter vs canister oil filter, vs spin on oil filter, 3 different valve cover bolt patterns, no threaded hole for securing the crank damper,long vs short water pumps, left and right side dipsticks, 2 piece and 1 piece rear main seals, different thickness front oil pan seals, etc. Just like the Fords, it seems that Chevy made a few running changes during its lifespan. As for how much easier it would have been to convert a 66 283 Chevy Nova from auto to 4 speed, hope that you have one of the special Chevy II only blocks and bellhousings to make use of the factory clutch linkage fit properly!
Seems that doing your homework when it comes to mixing and matching engine and car parts is a good idea, whether you are working on a Ford OR a Chevy!