Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers

[oldskool]

Thanks for that info, guys !

Here's more pics, of which, some cars I've probably already mentioned. Some had the year & track, in the caption.

(1) Bad Birdie 2.

(2) Herslow & Morlock @ Indy '77,

(3) Bob Michael in his '73 Bird @ Indy in '79.

(4) Bob Michael in his '77-'78 Bird, @ Indy.

(5) SS/JA Glen Tinsley, former Jack Mullins Bird.

(6) SS/J John Clegg.

(7) The former H-O Racing Specialties nat record holder, I suppose at this time owned & driven by Glen Tinsley, then later traded to John Clegg for a trailer.

[8) Lloyd Robinson @ the '80 Gators.

(9) Johnny Duncan Bird.

[oldskool]

Well, I think I've touched on this a little. But, I wanna drill down a little deeper into it.

I understand that many class racers are not willing to give up any info that might help a possible opponent.

But, maybe there are a few here that, for whatever reason, can & are willing to give a few behind-the-scenes details.

I suppose the subject might be LITTLE things that are, or could be done, to reduce ET slightly, for heads-up & record runs.

Thru the years, I've read of stuff like running thinner oil or grease, in places like engine, rear end, & wheel bearings.

Also have read of running max reasonable air pressure in tires, that will still hook up, in order to reduced rolling resistance, after launch.

What about disabling rear brakes, on tracks with ample shut-down area, in order to reduce pad-to-rotor drag ?

Now here's what I really wanna talk about. I've noticed that a lot of SS cars run big tires, like 14x32 or larger. I understand why most guys would want max traction at all times, even when track conditions are bad.

BUT, let's assume, for this post, that the track conditions are great, and the driver knows for sure that the car will hook 100%, with much smaller tires than it usually runs. Do(have) any SS racers used smaller tires, in order to run a hair quicker, for a heads-up or record run ?

Maybe that's a ridiculous question. I don't know. Sounds reasonable to me, considering all the other things I've read about class racers going to great lengths & expense, for very small ET gains.

Here's why I ask this about smaller tires. We all know that some of the Stockers are running 8's on 9" tires. But, being an old school kind of guy. Lets consider some 9 sec BBC powered Stockers. There are several BBC powered '69 Camaro & Nova SS cars that can run in the 9's. They must do it with 9" tires, & CalTrac type traction devices.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

So, is there any reason why some of the low 10 sec to mid 9 sec SS cars could not run a wee bit quicker on 9" tires than on 14x32 or larger tires ? Again, this is on a sticky track with good conditions, & just to run a bit quicker for a heads-up or record run. It's hard for me to believe that a racer with lots of money wouldn't carry some smaller tires, that he had tested on his car, for just such occasions.

If nobody ever does this, some of you long time racers please explain why.

Are there V8 powered 10-flat & quicker SS cars that run 9" tires, all the time ?

[oldskool]

Just looked over my list of SS Pontiacs, that have raced in the last couple of years.

There are only a couple of dozen, about equally divided between GT cars & reg SS cars. And, quite a few of these cars run a very limited schedule.

So, compared the the many hundreds or thousands of active SS cars, Pontiac powered SS cars are an extremely small percentage of the total.

To me, that's one of the main reasons why it's such a big deal when a Pontiac wins it's class, sets a record, wins a race, or qualifies near the top of the list. And, as I've probably said, it's one of the main reasons for even having special threads devoted entirely to Pontiac V8 powered Stock/SS cars.

Another reason for taking a closer look at what Pontiacs have done, & are doing, is because there are now so many different brands/combos that are so much more competitive, many of which are much cheaper to build & maintain.

But, for those with enuff money to spend, there are still a few Pontiac combos that can be competitive, in heads-up runs. And there are quite a few combos that can run under the index without major funding.

The thought just crossed my mind: What would make a good "dime rocket", Pontiac V8 powered SS car, using a 350 or larger engine ?

I've mentioned the Larry Maxwell '68 GT Bird that runs a '74 350 engine. Don't know how cheap it was to build. Don't even know what the min total cost is, that would be considered a "dime rocket" SS car. Just thinkin about it, I can't see that it would cost any more than building a Stocker that would run a half sec under.

Assuming that the correct roller cam, alum intake, converter & rear gears would get a car down to the index, or very near it, without major expense. But hey, I could be wrong.

So, for you Pontiac guys, what are some Pontiac 350 & larger Pontiac V8 combos you'd consider the easiest/cheapest to get at least even with the SS index ?

A few possible 400 engines might be a:

(1) '69 350hp GTO engine, with a 306hp factor in SS & 310hp in GT.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

(2) '74 225hp with a 290hp factor in SS & GT.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...1&MAKE=Pontiac

(3) '77 180hp with a 285hp factor in SS, 289hp in GT/auto.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

I suppose the best 350 prospects for SS are:

(1) '74 200hp with a 250hp factor in a SS Ventura, or 256hp in GT/auto.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

(2) '77 350 with a 246hp factor in a SS Bird, or 250hp in GT/auto.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

Possible 455 engines might be a:

(1) '70 360hp GTO with a 335hp factor for SS & GT.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...0&MAKE=Pontiac

(2) '73 & '74 250hp with a 310hp factor for SS & GT.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...2&MAKE=Pontiac

Not saying these are the ONLY choices. But there are cars out there that run these combos. I purposely left out the round port engines.

For a lower cost engine, I assume the '77 400 might be a little cheaper, because of the price of 6x-8 head cores. A 350 might be a little cheaper, because a good core block is real cheap. Some have been given away. And some have been scrapped, because nobody would buy, or even pick up for free. Most Pontiac street guys just will not settle for a 350 block engine. They gotta have more cubes.

So, with all the other correct parts, how much head work would be required just to run the index, with some of these combos ? From what I've read here, that seems to be the big cost item, to go really quick. So, how much is a Go-Slow, head job, that will make enuff power to just barely run under the index. ?

[oldskool]

I thought this was interesting.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...65&postcount=1

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...72&postcount=2

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...85&postcount=6

[oldskool]

At the AZ Nats, Brad Burton was #33 on the SS Q-1 list, with his Pontiac powered 3rd gen Bird.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

In SS Q-2, he was #37.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

And, since they were expecting rain Sat, they ran 2 rounds of elims, which Brad survived.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

Yep, looked like Sat was gonna be a washout. But, they were able to get in one more round. Brad also survived that round.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...UMMIT#indextop

[oldskool]

At the div 2 race, Jack Good has his '78 Bird. It's the same Bird that Ken Shawver & Monte Howard won class at Indy with. That old Bird has made lots of passes.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

[oldskool]

Panning thru the Nostalgia section & found this nugget.

I suppose everybody here besides me already knew where to find this info.

It's a list of NHRA Nat event results from 1955 thru 2000. Of course, the 1998 & later results are listed on DRC.

But, a quick scan thru some of the years revealed some Pontiac powered wins & RU's I was not aware of, as far as I know.

Now I'm not familiar with every driver name that ran a Pontiac powered car in all those races. So, there could be some Pontiacs on some of these lists I miss. Also, as we all know, LOTS of guys have raced different brands of cars, during their driving career.

So, for some of you guys who were there back when a particular race was run, I need ya'll to point out any Pontiac powered car I might miss, AND any name I list as having been driving a Pontiac, who was actually driving some other brand, at that race.

http://www.nhra.net/50th/resultslist.html

I'll post this on the Pontiac Stock thread, then start going up thru the years & listing all Pontiac wins & RU's I find, listing the SS cars on this thread & the Stock cars on the Stock thread.