Lookin for NHRA Stock Class ET/MPH from 1970-71

[bill dedman]

Deuce coupe...

Here is a copy of a post I wrote back in 2007 that may help you with your article., The thread it comes from (one from December, 2007) has lots of posts from knowledgable people whose posts you might want to investigate.

This is my contribution to that thread:

"NHRA allowed the 4-speed HydraMatic in Chevy sedan deliveries and El Caminos from about 1964 until they pulled the plug on all the "Dual-Range" 4-speed HydraMatics somewhere arounf 1972 or '73....not sure of the exact dates.

Nomads were just fancy station wagons and had to run Powerglides, like a sedan.

How they ever got approved is not exactly known; I heard that some guy from California, who was a close friend of a Division Tech Director (perhaps, Div. VII), had a 348-powered Stocker that was an El Camino, and was licensed as a truck in California. He supposedly convinced this Division Tech guy that since it was licensed as a truck, it should be allowed to use a truck transmission. Chevy trucks at that time,didn't use Powerglides... they had 4-speed HydraMatics. I don't know how much of that story, if any, is true, so, please don't quote me. It was a l-o-n-g time ago...

This was during a period of time when torque converter science was in its infancy. It was very difficult, if not impossible, to get a decent hi-stall converter for a Powerglide transmission.

The NHRA rules at the time, allowed virtually any engine in the Blueprint Specs to run in virtually any body, so it was legal and feasible to run a 283 c.i.d., F.I. 283 horsepower motor in a '57 Chevy sedan delivery, for example, with a 4-speed HydraMatic tranny. These transmissions had a fluid coupling instead of a torque converter, and were very easy to modify for high stall speeds.

The news of this transmission, its superior performance, and its across-the-board legality in Chevy "trucks" (sedan deliveries and El Caminos, included), spread like wildfire, and soon, they were populating every class from about E/SA down to N/SA, whicjh was the bottom "automatic." class for V8's at the time (16 pounds per hp???)

At one point, they held virtually every record from E to N... with "host" vehicles ranging from '55 Chevy sedan deliveries with 4-bbl "Power Pack" 265s in N/SA (high 14's) up to '57 Chevy F-I- 283/283hp sedan deliveries, running mid- 13's in E/SA.

I remember a letter-to-the-editor of National DRAGSTER from the wife of the driver/builder of "BIG DADDY": (not Garlits), a '60 Buick convertible G/SA Stocker from Lafayette, Indiana (Russ Matthews) who announced that her elderly husband was giving up trying to compete with these "fantasy cars" that were never built by the factory. He'd been a national record holder for years with his 401/nailhead/Dynaflow Buick, but the sedan deliveries made his car uncompetitive. So, he was quitting. She just wanted everyone to know why.

I think that letter MAY have precipitated some action...

It wasn't too long after that, that NHRA bit the bullet and disallowed that "truck" transmission in sedan deliveries and El Caminos.

The reason they were disallowed is that NHRA finally (albeit, tacitly) admitted that the Chevy factory never put that transmission in passenger-car based vehicles. It was in pickups, panel trucks, and larger Chevy trucks, but NEVER in sedan deliveries (or, El Caminos.)

I built one of the first ones to hit the strip in 1965, and I remember pouring over Chevy parts books, trying to find motor (rear) mounts that would fit the engine/tranny and the sedan crossmember.

No go; they had mounts for Powerglides in sedans, and mounts for Hydros in Pickup trucks, but NOTHING for a Hydro-to-sedan cross-memeber (which is what the sedan delivery had... because it was, in essence, just a station wagon with 2 doors.)

So, like everyone else, I had to build my own... LOL!

With the advent of Marvin Ripes' (and, others') new hi-stall Powerglide converters, it soon became a moot point, anyway.

This whole deal was a major embarrassment for NHRA, and one that I'm not sure they'll ever live down. It's been 35 years since they pulled the plug on the hydros in the sedan deliveries, and people still talk about it...

You'd think they would have learned something about the bogus legalization of "never-never" combos..."

I hijacked the thread... it was originally about the NHRA legalizing 4-speed manual transmissions in '55 (and, later) Chevies.

This is a link to that earlier thread: http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=8410

Hope this helps!

[Rich Biebel]

NHRA knocked out all combinations that were never built or offered as regular production line combinations.....this included hydro equipped SD's. I think it was after the 1968 season.

'57 Chevy's could not use 4 speed transmissions anymore since they were only offered in Corvettes. 3 speed manual or P/G

'62 Plymouth same deal.....383/343 could not run a 4 speed....3 speed manual or auto...

Lot's of other combinations were disallowed.......

[Freddie Cain]

Deuce Coupe,Please check your private messages.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Freddie Cain

Deuce Coupe,Please check your private messages.

Freddie has sent me several records sheets (thanks) and that is helping the effort. Trouble is, they are the cryptic "69 Chevy" style so you have to guess at model/engine. I am getting pretty good at it.


But here is one for any gurus:
June 1971
H/S Gary Moore-Carroll's Auto Service-Pierson Pontiac, Tulia, TX
114.06mph, Houma, LA May 71


So I am ASSUMING the car is a Pontiac but they don't even give the year. A 70 GTO 400/350 fits but that is a total guess.
Web search discovered nothing on the car.
Anybody recall?

[pauldilcher]

It was a Firebird .

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by pauldilcher

It was a Firebird .

Thanks!!
Google just needed that one extra word:


http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/...tiac-firebird/


Gary Moore of "Acre Maker" cars:
71 Firebird 455ho/335hp
12.22-114.06 h/s



Ok let me push my luck a little, here is another mystery car:
65 Winternationals
Corky Schroeder
"Pontiac" (no year / model / engine)
14.23 at 98.57 E/SA


Any ideas??

[Terry Witzel]

Found this entry list for the 1965 Winternationals, but just lists entry as a 1960 Pontiac. Number 760.

[Terry Witzel]

Originally Posted by DeuceCoupe

Freddie has sent me several records sheets (thanks) and that is helping the effort. Trouble is, they are the cryptic "69 Chevy" style so you have to guess at model/engine. I am getting pretty good at it.


But here is one for any gurus:
June 1971
H/S Gary Moore-Carroll's Auto Service-Pierson Pontiac, Tulia, TX
114.06mph, Houma, LA May 71


So I am ASSUMING the car is a Pontiac but they don't even give the year. A 70 GTO 400/350 fits but that is a total guess.

Web search discovered nothing on the car.
Anybody recall?

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

NHRA knocked out all combinations that were never built or offered as regular production line combinations.....this included hydro equipped SD's. I think it was after the 1968 season.

'57 Chevy's could not use 4 speed transmissions anymore since they were only offered in Corvettes. 3 speed manual or P/G

'62 Plymouth same deal.....383/343 could not run a 4 speed....3 speed manual or auto...

Lot's of other combinations were disallowed.......

I thought all that was way over due. I could not understand those being legal to begin with.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Deuce coupe...

Here is a copy of a post I wrote back in 2007 that may help you with your article., The thread it comes from (one from December, 2007) has lots of posts from knowledgable people whose posts you might want to investigate.

This is my contribution to that thread:

"NHRA allowed the 4-speed HydraMatic in Chevy sedan deliveries and El Caminos from about 1964 until they pulled the plug on all the "Dual-Range" 4-speed HydraMatics somewhere arounf 1972 or '73....not sure of the exact dates.........

This is a link to that earlier thread: http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=8410

Hope this helps!

Bill,
Thanks for that old Dec.2007 link:
Great history on transmissions & NHRA.
I gather from your comments:
1. Nobody drag raced a TurboGlide (or very few & not for long), fairly easy to see.
2. On the Roto / SlimJim - why was it so slow, isn't it just a simpler Super/Jetaway 2-coupling Hydramatic?
3. I had assumed folks like Lloyd & Carol Cox (61-62 Ventura/Cat) would have run the Roto, cant find that info, do you know? Or did they run the bigger-car Super Hydramatic?


Good pics of Lloyd & Carol & Cars:
http://www.dragracingonline.com/feat..._11-cox-1.html