Chrysler

[Gary Smith]

Originally Posted by Adam Strang

Well ,if you`ve worked for two different dealerships then you`d know that warranty programs change all the time,every year is different.They`re no more vague than any other manufacturer,thats the warranty they offered in `02 .No one insinuated that you have to go back to the dealership for all of your work,you could do it all yourself in your yard as long as you have the receipts to prove what you have done.

The `07 warranty program is a lifetime powertrain warranty.

Sounds like you have the skills to fix it yourself so put a converter in it. If you say the converter failed then the rest of the trans is probably okay.

If it`s such a piece of **** why did you buy two!?!?

Adam, I fully understand how warranty programs change from year to year. I also learned years ago how a small customer has potential to become a big one. My argument here encompasses the "intra year" warranty changes Chrysler instituted during the 2002 model year. Another issue is I'm a "Ford person" who happens to own a Chrysler product, and have been accustomed to Ford's, although dated, very clear 1/10 bumper to bumper and 5/50 powertrain warranty programs.

I've owned other vehicles over the years, new and used, with very clear and reputable warranty programs & extended packages, etc. that carried over to new owners. The first Caravan I owned, purchased new BTW, developed electrical issues caused by a dealer installed security system. Next the A/C at 47k miles (evaporator). Then the valvetrain (lifters and cam) at 65k miles, which was the final straw. Although Chrysler shouldn't be responsible for the first problem, shouldn't they be held accountable for it's dealerships? Aren't they the representitive who interface between the factory and customer?

As far as doing the work myself, even the mechanic I deal with is smart enough to "farm out" transmission tasks knowing what kind of pitfalls there are with new EC trans. I've always hated automatics, and haven't gotten any easier over the years, not to mention I don't have the luxury of learning at this point.

To answer the POS issue, after unloading the first, I vowed never to buy another. However I purchased the 2002 against my better judgement after being talked into it by a family friend who happens to be the broker, as well as a 2002 Caravan owner. I am a real fool for giving Chrysler a second chance, when I should have gone with a Toyota or Honda. In all fairness, that choice is based on market trends which we all know, continue to show a decline with America's "big 3" in service and quality, while Jap brands continue to improve.

One thing is perfectly clear ..I'm paying for it and Chrysler isn't. They've elected to use their warranty language to their advantage. Saves them money right now, but cost them a customer in the long run. End of story.

[bill dedman]

Here's some science fiction that wouldn't be so bad, except evey word is true:

After having tranmission failures at 29,000 and 69,000 miles (both fixed under warranty) my '90 Grand Caravan's "Ultradrive" (A-604) automatic went into "LIMP-HOME" mode (2nd-gear, only) at 135K miles...66,000 miles after its last replacement at my friendly dealership.

I take it to my dealer, and asked if they could repair it.

Dealer: "It's a rebuilt; we don't work on rebuilts."

Me: "You are the one who rebuilt it."

Dealer: Doesn't matter... we don't work on rebuilts. We'll replace it with a new transmission.

Me: How much?

Dealer "$2,100.00, including converter..

Me: It doesn't need a new converter.

Dealer: All new tranmisssions get a new converter; may have detritus in the old converter that could harm the new transmission.

Me I'll be right back.

Dealer: OK... I'll be here.

I "sprint" over to the parts department

Counter man: Can I help you?

Me: How much will you charge me for a new A-604 out th door?

Counter man: We don't have "new" transmissions; only rebuilts.

Me: How much for a rebuilt?

Counter Man: $1,600.00.

Me: Can you order me a "NEW" transmission; I don't mind waiting a few days??? Don't want a rebuilt.

Counter man; I TOLD you; we don't have, nor do we have any way to GET, a "NEW" transmission... only rebuilts.

Me: Thank you for your time.

"Sprinting" back to Dealer spokes-person... pant, pant, pant...gasp...

Dealer: Can I help you (looking at me like he'd never seen me before, in his entire life.)

Me: Yes; your parts person just informed me that he cannot obtain a "NEW": A-604...

Dealer,: So??? (Obviously not remembering what he'd told me, 5 minutes ago).

Me: You told me you were going to install a "NEW" A-604 in my Caravan for $2100....

Dealer, yes...

Me; Where are you going to get it???

Dealer: We get all our transmission from the parts department.

Me: HELLO.... He JUST told me that he cannot in any way, shape, or form GET a "New" transmission like I need...

Dealer: Well, it's a rebuilt, but it's a FACTORY rebuild...

Me; So, you won't work on the transmission in my Caravan because it's a rebuilt, but you'll replace it with ANOTHER rebuilt???

Dealer: silence... loking at ceiling, now...

Me: WHICH YOU WON'T work on, when it comes back "sick"???

Dealer, loooking at floor... saying nothing.

Me, exiting Mopar dealership for the LAST TIME...

Post-script:
One thing that happens to these transmissions is this (happened to mine 3 times):

These A-604 transmissions are electronicaly controlled. The computer monitors the shift action each time a shift is made, noting how long it takes for the clutch pack to fill, thereby, effecting the shift (in micro-seconds.)
As the face material wears off the clutch disks, it takes more fluid to displace the missing material. This takes more time... filling the swept area.
At some point, the computer decides. "This clutch pack is too worn to function correctly... too much material gone... it's worn out."

That decision by the computer translates into action by the program that disables any forward gear but second... called "LIMP-HOME-MODE"
No first, third or fourth gear...

The dealership mechanics have a reader that can perform a "clutch-volume-index test" that will tell them how worn these clutches are (from data relative to how long the clutch-pack takes to apply." It's a test that can be performed with the transmission in the car; just drive in and hook it up.

Armed with the data from that test, the technician can deduce whether the reason this transmission went ito LIMP HOME was that the facing material is gone off the specific clutch pack he tested (he can test them all.)

What would it take to fix a transmission with this "worn clutch" malady? Not much...

Remove tranny... disassemble, and replace clutch disks in the offending clutch pack(s) (and any others that were questionable), renew seals, and button it up and put it back in the car.

But, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
"WE DON'T WORK ON REBUILDS (even though we were the ones who rebuilt it!)" says the dealership...

I'll race a MOPAR 'til the day I die, but NEVER buy another (new) one...

Fool me once, shame on you...
Fool me twice? Ain't gonna happen... They're STILL USING THAT TRANSMISSION...

Take a Consumers' Report magazine (annual auto issue) and look at the frequency of repair records for Mopar transmissions. Sad.......

I had a 1980 Ford Fairmont that I drove ~215,000~ miles (that's no typo) and never even changed the fluid (much less the filter) in its C-3, and it shifted as well the day I got rid of it, as the day I got it (Hertz rent-a-Car) at 18,000 miles...

I am not proud of that, but I was in my "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mode back then...
I only mention the Fairmont for comparison as to what a transmission CAN be...

[FED 387]

Not hi jacking your thread but I have a 2000 ford F250 DIESEL superduty pu that has 435,000 miles on it----other than normal stuff like brakes, shocks, battery etc.and the obligatory $1200 tie rod ends/ball joints that ALL superduties have at 50,000 miles-- NO problems at all NONE ZIP NZDA since day one---Now I'm not a Ford guy but I hafta think that maybe Mopar has a trans problem much like Ford does with the ball joints and the leaking windshields and bad transmissions on the Taurus---neither one will admit to it but they know it's there and just nurse it along --People trade their cars off not to a mopar dealer cuz Mopar dealers arec savvy to whats going on and just maybe they will sell you another car. They all(every manufacturer) have their problems some more some less it just depends on the car and the company---Comp 387

[Jeff Teuton]

You know fellows, I have been a dealer for 40 years and have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly of both Chrysler and the industry and I can give you 48 pages of the good, the bad, and the ugly on the subject. And I do believe you have killed this horse. Maybe you should quit beating on him before you wear yourself out.

[Tim H]

I was the service writer/ branch manager for a Mr. Transmission outlet here in Canada. I can tell you without a doubt the Caravan is the number 1, most frequently overhauled unit. In second place were the Taurus / Sable trans. They were just a poorly engineered unit and Chyrsler has scrambled for years trying different fluids ( ATF3,ATF 4 etc) in an attempt to get away from persistent shudder problems and customer comebacks on relatively new units. I wouldn't advise anyone in my immediate family to purchase one , just like the GM vans with the dreaded 3400 intake gasket nightmare. Fortunately when you see enough failures you get to realize which models to avoid.

[Chris DeGidio]

I agree with Jeff...the horse is dead.

[ol pig]

It ain't over yet!! Yes everybody has issues with all makes, but when I hear the lame *** "domestic is junk and jap **** is gods gift" It certainly gets my dander up!
Bad enough hearing it from brainless automotively challenged morons who blame a car for them locking the keys in it etc, but hearing it from supposedly informed racers???
HAS ANYBODY HEARD ABOUT FORD NOW BEING AHEAD OF TOYOTA WITH REGARDS TO QUALITY???
This is from JD POWERS and other numerous sources!

HAS ANYBODY HEARD OF THE NEW PIECE OF **** TUNDRA AND HOW IT REALLY IS???
For your reading pleasure;
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...res-i-am-club/

Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/Kwasted/petition.html

The owner comments with the petition signatures:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_pe......i?Kwasted&1

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...lgate-failure/

Another problem is transmission shudder...followed by transmission failure. Bummer.

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...sion-failures/

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/news...ons/page1.html

They were also kicked off the Consumer Reports "Recommended" list.

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/16/t...eliability-ra/

In short, honda is #1, nissan is #2 and FORD is #3!
And in case you think I'm pushing ford, check this out;
January Car and Driver.

The "10 Best" winners for 2008:

BMW 3-series
Cadillac CTS
Chevrolet Corvette
Chevrolet Malibu
Honda Accord
Honda Fit
Mazda MX-5
Mazdaspeed 3
Porsche Boxster/Cayman
VW GTI

3 gm's and NO TOYOTA!!!

TOYOTA QUALITY!!
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071114/auto_...yota.html?.v=1

The list goes on and on about tundra cams failing, tailgate buckling,choppy ride,tire failures,tranny problems,etc,etc

Toyota was good at building a single platform APPLIANCE, but now stepping up to be a full line manufacturer has them finding out how easy it is.

**** jap **** and their "superior race" builders.

Yes I'm venting, I know three people now who have bought toyota's in the last 2 years and their cars were junk. 2 replaced them with domestic's and the third bought a honda because, in her words" aren't the japanese just better at making cars"? Yeah were too stupid to build cars cause we have round eyes!

[Gary Smith]

Originally Posted by T Hall

My only question is... if your first Caravan was junk, why did you buy another?
I am goin Honda next time around.

As I said I gave the first the benefit of the doubt and chalked it up as bad luck. Guess I was wrong.

Regarding Jap vs. American... well, when Chrysler decides to stand behind their product instead of shoving it up customers asses (like mine), I may have a change of heart. But until then, I have yet to hear more good than bad about Caravans. In fact, anything good about the big three these days (and I've been a diehard American car advocate until I bought my first ricer). Okay, maybe not the best cars, but at least much better service.

[raceannouncer]

Originally Posted by Gary Smith

As I said I gave the first the benefit of the doubt and chalked it up as bad luck. Guess I was wrong.

Regarding Jap vs. American... well, when Chrysler decides to stand behind their product instead of shoving it up customers asses (like mine), I may have a change of heart. But until then, I have yet to hear more good than bad about Caravans. In fact, anything good about the big three these days (and I've been a diehard American car advocate until I bought my first ricer). Okay, maybe not the best cars, but at least much better service.

Well, Gary, I owned a 1990 Caravan cargo van that I took to 245,000 miles and had only 1 transmission issue. It was replaced by a rebuilt unit at 65,000 miles under warranty and it never gave me another problem the rest of the way. The only reason why I don't own it today was that road salt had its way with the undercarriage and several body panels, rendering them unsafe. The motor and tranny were more than willing to keep going.

Since then, I have owned 3 more Caravans, all with the so-called pesky transmission and the near-bulletproof 3.3L V6. My strategy with the trannys is to keep a keen eye on the fluid levels and watch for leaks. NEVER, and I mean, NEVER crack open the transmission unless you're going the rebuild route. For me, the most important thing was to find a tech at the Dodge dealership that knew their way around the transmissions, inside and out.

Your experience suggests to me more of a problem with the dealer that you've transferred to the make of the vehicle. Find another dealer!

And BTW, Dodge is not alone--I seem to remember some pretty ugly electronically-controlled tranny problems in the early-to-mid '90's on the GM full-size pickups...

Bottom line: Every make of vehicle is a mechanical object. It can have problems right off the assembly line or it can be the best vehicle you've ever owned, regardless of make. In either case, however, proper maintenance is an absolute necessity.

Mike Paz, Motorsports Announcer