Stick car, too much clutch?

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

The pressure plate has a 280 lb base, I started at 5 turns out, and backed it down until it flared on the 3-4 shift, and added 1/2 turn. I normally leave it like that until it flares again, however many runs that takes. I don`t really play with counterweight, as I can not remove the bellhousing in the car, engine has to come out. For counterweight, I have the short steel bolt and nut, I believe that is about 6 grams per lever. I launch at 6000-6200, and shift about the same.

Do you shift with or without the clutch ?

[Joe Martens]

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

Where do you leave and shift at? Are you running counterweight? If I had to guess if your running to much counter weight and its locked up tight at your shift points. That is just a shot in the dark.

I would look at the counterweight as well. Good luck!

[gmonde]

although I can only suggest what could be going on as I only have 25 passes on my combo ,the one thing I can tell you is if you get a data logger you can see what is happening during the run ,,,when you make changes to the clutch you will be able to see it on the graph and compare several runs together,,,i have a rpm data logger 10 channel with the basic engine rpm,drive shaft rpm ... it also gives you a R.A.T number witch is the slippage between the engine and input shaft ,with that system you can add other sensors,o2's, it takes the guess work out of runs that went bad(loosing traction down track,bad starting line or slipping the clutch) its not priced bad and its made in America and they always will return the phone call if you have a question, I have learned a lot and still learning gmonde
http://rpmperf.com/

[Notch1320]

Rory, do you need that CW? Have you ran without it?

[Mike Taylor 3601]

I made a mistake one time I thought mine was flaring up on 3-4 shift so raised base 1 turn and it got worse, put a new set of tires on because car had became inconsistent also,tires fixed it, I would have swore it was slipping clutch on 3-4 shift when it was actaully spinning the tires and this is only 7.8 1/8 car.
I'm not saying that's what is happening just a suggestion,sometimes what you think you feel is different than you think.
As someone suggested I would try to get set w/out counterweight ,personally I'm not a big fan of counterweight when shifting w/clutch
Mike Taylor 3601

[69Cobra]

I also would look at the CW's but you really need some way of seeing some data. I used an Autometer 2 channel tach for the last 10 years and it worked great. Some times to good as it shows you just how bad of a driver you really are lol. Are you shifting with the pedal?

[Dinsdale]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGTtrnq31So"]FE Fairmont - YouTube[/ame]

[69Cobra]

It looks like you already have a 2 channel tach. That should tell you right there. But in my opinion you do have way to much clutch for my liking on both the starting line and at the gear changes. Its bogging the motor down on the starting line and the one pass I heard it bark 4th LOL. But if its consistent and its not breaking anything yet run it. I know that if I was running that much clutch in my car it would be breaking stuff.

[Rory McNeil]

Well, it is pretty consistent, and in 12 years, the only real breakage has been knocking a few teeth off 3rd gear a few years ago. I need to pull the trans to fix an oil leak, so I guess I will remove the counterweight at that time. I never really used any counterweight before this clutch freshen up. My tach is a playback model, but it has no provisions for driveshaft RPM. I`d really be suprised if I have "way too much" clutch static though, as when I do encounter flare up on the 3-4, or noticable slippage in 4th, I can normally cure the slippage with 1/2 turn increase of static. And as I mentioned in the first post, rolling on the throttle on the return road at 2500-3000RPM will result in noticable slipping. I do normally shift it clutchless. One other thing I should add, don`t know if its really relevent or not, but Hyatt did the last clutch rebuild, and instead of the normal .280" disc McLeod supplies, Tim uses a .380" thick disc, and I have the pressure plate shimmed up .100" to compensate for the added thickness. And lastly Kris, since you also run a FE, have you had any issues with the pilot bearing "falling out" of the crankshaft? I use the ball bearing pilot, and it kinda sticks out of the crank a ways, and is not a very tight press fit, and has been found just sitting on the input shaft a couple of times . I last installed the pilot bearing with red Loctite, I`ll take a look when I pull the trans out in the near future.

From what I just read, if you remove the counter and don't add a few turns of base you will drive through the clutch in high gear.

One affects the other. You can mostlikely, take some more base adjustment out and it will soften the clutch durring the shifts. The CW no CW debate is very split. When you run counter, the base adjustment should be run on the soft side. When running enough counter, you will have a hard time driving through the clutch. When set up like this, you should lower the starting line RPM to soften the launch. Leaving where you shift at will produce the " Sledge Hammer Effect " because of the counter producing more clamp pressure on the disc. In the end you have to figure out what clutch management theory you subscribe to and go out and test.
Be sure you take a lot of notes durring testing. When you get some data from your results , you will be able to tailor your clutch to your needs and desires. That is the fun of this game.

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Well, it is pretty consistent, and in 12 years, the only real breakage has been knocking a few teeth off 3rd gear a few years ago. I need to pull the trans to fix an oil leak, so I guess I will remove the counterweight at that time. I never really used any counterweight before this clutch freshen up. My tach is a playback model, but it has no provisions for driveshaft RPM. I`d really be suprised if I have "way too much" clutch static though, as when I do encounter flare up on the 3-4, or noticable slippage in 4th, I can normally cure the slippage with 1/2 turn increase of static. And as I mentioned in the first post, rolling on the throttle on the return road at 2500-3000RPM will result in noticable slipping. I do normally shift it clutchless. One other thing I should add, don`t know if its really relevent or not, but Hyatt did the last clutch rebuild, and instead of the normal .280" disc McLeod supplies, Tim uses a .380" thick disc, and I have the pressure plate shimmed up .100" to compensate for the added thickness. And lastly Kris, since you also run a FE, have you had any issues with the pilot bearing "falling out" of the crankshaft? I use the ball bearing pilot, and it kinda sticks out of the crank a ways, and is not a very tight press fit, and has been found just sitting on the input shaft a couple of times . I last installed the pilot bearing with red Loctite, I`ll take a look when I pull the trans out in the near future.