1957 150

[55 Chevy]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Allan - Make no mistake - I'm a purist at heart ...........................that being said you have to remember that none of the cars I race came with Metric 200's so a 4 speed in a '57 Bel Air is not a stretch for me .Blasphemy - not hardly as they ran them for awhile in the old days before they were outlawed .As far as the shifter thing is concerned Hurst made a really neat deal for these cars so the seat wouldn't have to be altered .

Jack

Yes I suppose you are right on that one. I guess I need to not be so rigid in my ways as I am quite pleased that I now that have a Jerico and not that old pro-shifted T-16 or the toploader. Hopefully I can put an end to all those granny shifting jokes and maybe even pick up a bit.

One of "my" demands when I got the Jerico is that they move the Long shifter far enough ahead to clear my stock seat. Scott did just that for me, not something they have ever been asked for before. It now sits 17" from the front of the transmission.
I remember that old Hurst horseshoe handle where the shifter was well under the seat.

Allan

[Jack McCarthy]

i tried to get a 6 speed for the overdrive cars but they would not even discuss it (it has SS issues) but in reality you can let out the clutch and move forward in 6 different ratios enclosed inside the factory case.

and the turboglide was a 3 speed (has two planetaries) so i just got it recognized. for 57-61 some cars not available 6cyl and high HP 348-409.

captain...
57 would be cool ! intake & carb sucks though we do not get 459 and smaller carb

[ss wannabee]

I would think the rear could live " beefed" for an automatic...Of course the 12-bolt would be stronger...and has a better list of parts available. But if you're "gung-ho" on "flogging" that 10-bolt...you'd have to work around some disadvantages...One is I don't think anybody made "Pro" Gears for this application EVER...so I would suggest "prepping" the available gear sets as best you can...de-burring, heat-treating, or whatever "current" metal process is suggested for stress-relieving today. Another problem with the "old" gears is ratio selection is a bit weak as they jump from 5.57 to 6.17 while the 12-bolt has 5.57/5.86/6.00, and 6.14 ratios...a better selection to "fine-tune" your combo with. Yes, the pinion is small on the 10-bolt 6.17 ring & pinion as mentioned before...a definate liability! BUT your combo might not require such a "stout" ratio depending on what you will run for tire size, trans ratio, etc....Another problem with the early rear end is I don't think anybody made a SPOOL for it although it could be "custom-made"...check out "Aubrey's " site the guy in Canada with the 409 car. I think he's running the 10-bolt in that car still....although a LOT of work to make it live. The GM "Arma-Steel" posi unit is pretty strong BUT needs help with NEW heat-treated FINE-SPLINED spider gears (for the custom axles), and other mods. Unless you have one of these NOW, they could be a bit pricey at swap meets today...I would also consider steel differential carrier "caps" (or reinforcing straps for the stock caps), larger grade-8 bolts, etc. All of these mods were pretty much "standard-issue" for racers running this rear-end back in the day...although today's horsepower levels, better tires, and better track prep should be factored in the decision...I would try and contact Aubrey...or maybe Tom's Differentials for more input on your situation....Good Luck!

[Mike Taylor 3601]

Use 12 blt. only GM you can get pro gear for,sure you could probaly modify old 10 bolt stump to work,but would cost more than 12 bolt by time you custom made what you would need.
Allan was 3,08,2.10 to 1.1 what you meant to put on ratios? Can a 2.10 to 1.1 gear change be made without killing engine?
Did you say Granny shift jokes?

If your Granny is offended by the term"Granny Shift",You might be a stick racer.

Please don't tell me you Granny shifted,even us KY. hillbilly's don't do that.it's a disgrace to stick racers everywhere,if I had witnessed such a unethical thing I would have ripped your shifter out with my bare hands.LOL just joking around but seriously don't ley it happen againLOL
Mike Taylor3601

[55 Chevy]

Originally Posted by ss wannabee

I would think the rear could live " beefed" for an automatic...Of course the 12-bolt would be stronger...and has a better list of parts available. But if you're "gung-ho" on "flogging" that 10-bolt...you'd have to work around some disadvantages...One is I don't think anybody made "Pro" Gears for this application EVER...so I would suggest "prepping" the available gear sets as best you can...de-burring, heat-treating, or whatever "current" metal process is suggested for stress-relieving today. Another problem with the "old" gears is ratio selection is a bit weak as they jump from 5.57 to 6.17 while the 12-bolt has 5.57/5.86/6.00, and 6.14 ratios...a better selection to "fine-tune" your combo with. Yes, the pinion is small on the 10-bolt 6.17 ring & pinion as mentioned before...a definate liability! BUT your combo might not require such a "stout" ratio depending on what you will run for tire size, trans ratio, etc....Another problem with the early rear end is I don't think anybody made a SPOOL for it although it could be "custom-made"...check out "Aubrey's " site the guy in Canada with the 409 car. I think he's running the 10-bolt in that car still....although a LOT of work to make it live. The GM "Arma-Steel" posi unit is pretty strong BUT needs help with NEW heat-treated FINE-SPLINED spider gears (for the custom axles), and other mods. Unless you have one of these NOW, they could be a bit pricey at swap meets today...I would also consider steel differential carrier "caps" (or reinforcing straps for the stock caps), larger grade-8 bolts, etc. All of these mods were pretty much "standard-issue" for racers running this rear-end back in the day...although today's horsepower levels, better tires, and better track prep should be factored in the decision...I would try and contact Aubrey...or maybe Tom's Differentials for more input on your situation....Good Luck!

I know many years ago my brother ran the 55-64 10 bolt in his SS/P '55 hardtop.It had Henry's axles,spool,steel caps & side gears.I am not sure if the Zoom 6.17 gears were pro or not to tell you the truth. He used to launch the car at 9100 rpm used a 40 lb steel flywheel and a 2830 lb McLeod P.P. He broke rearend gears and cases on a regular basis.. It would be interesting to know that with the vastly improved clutch technology if the old 10 bolt would work. Sure was light weight. Still have all the components in my garage collecting dust. Would probably work good in a street car,except would have to have posi side gears made for those higher spline axles.

Mike,I think you are right the transmission 2-3 drop from 2.10 to 1.1 would probably be too steep. Way back I had 2.86/1.71/1 and it was bad enough. Some guys used to underdrive third gear but I had no choice.

Unfortunately the granny shifting was no joke. I heard it myself on video. I was not letting my foot off the gas either but it was very noticeable in the 1-2 shift. So after the good natured jokes and advice the pro-shifted toploader w/ super shifter is gone and the Jerico w/ Long shifter is in.Can't wait to try it.
But if that type of shifting behavior persists I may have to let someone else drive.

Allan

[ss wannabee]

Softer "modern" clutch set-up may help extend rear-end life in 10-bolt over what your brother experienced...but if he builds stick car...ONLY a 12-bolt should be used in the '57.

Your brother should have used a Dana in the conditions you mentioned!

IMHO...the '57 150 being not that heavy, and the smaller carb(s) limiting rpm a bit (depending on which combo he ends up with ), the gear ratio wouldn't have to be that "steep", and tire diameter/gear would be sorted out in testing. If considering to keep the car original and running AUTO TRANS, I still think the early 10-bolt has a chance but to be practical...you'd have to be able to do most of the work yourself . Mike T. makes some good points too.....

[55 Chevy]

Originally Posted by ss wannabee

Softer "modern" clutch set-up may help extend rear-end life in 10-bolt over what your brother experienced...but if he builds stick car...ONLY a 12-bolt should be used in the '57.

Your brother should have used a Dana in the conditions you mentioned!


IMHO...the '57 150 being not that heavy, and the smaller carb(s) limiting rpm a bit (depending on which combo he ends up with ), the gear ratio wouldn't have to be that "steep", and tire diameter/gear would be sorted out in testing. If considering to keep the car original and running AUTO TRANS, I still think the early 10-bolt has a chance but to be practical...you'd have to be able to do most of the work yourself . Mike T. makes some good points too.....

Well my brother was anal about keeping the car as stock as possible kinda something I am slowly learning to overcome. The car was not even tubbed!He suffered for it both in hard labour and a slower car. The next '55 he built(early eighties) indeed had a Dana 60 w/6.50's and I don't think he ever had the cover off it but he is long since retired from racing.
The gear ratio in my combination which is the 265 single four barrel needs to be no less than 6.20 with some apparently running as low as 7.17.


Allan

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by 55 Chevy

Well my brother was anal about keeping the car as stock as possible kinda something I am slowly learning to overcome. The car was not even tubbed!He suffered for it both in hard labour and a slower car. The next '55 he built(early eighties) indeed had a Dana 60 w/6.50's and I don't think he ever had the cover off it but he is long since retired from racing.
The gear ratio in my combination which is the 265 single four barrel needs to be no less than 6.20 with some apparently running as low as 7.17.


Allan

The first TurboGlides appeared in 1957 (not 1958) sedans and hardtops. and were generally available through the 1961 model year. Not all engines were available with this transmission, but I think most V8's were. It featured a compicated internal planetary geartrain that gave 3 separate ratios for accelleation, with no actual "gear shifting." When one planetary could no longer accellerate the car (turning too fast) it would simply "overrun" on its sprag, and the next higher ratio would take over (since it was already pulling, all the time.) I think the planetary gearsets were something like 2.5:1 and 1.5:1.... not sure about the exact ratios. The engine would wind up to about 3,500 rpm at stall, and stay at that rpm until it ran out of breath (the transmission) and then the engine rpm would begin to increase along with the vehicle speed.
Buick had a very similar transmission called "Triple Turbine Dynaflow," during the same period of time.