Best Pontiac Powered Stockers

oldskool · 01-27-2020, 12:53 PM

Most here know how quick NHRA hp factors can change. And many times those changes can make certain combos either more or less competitive, for the heads-up runs.

But, as of right now, there are a few Pontiac combos which seem to be more competitive than most others.

I'll make a list, in very roughly the order I think they fall, as to the most competitive. I am by no means the Pontiac expert here. So, for those Pontiac guys who have a different opinion as to the correct order, I'd like to hear all opinions.

(1) Has to be a 1977 180hp 400. Since this engine is factored so much higher if in a Bird, it has to be more competitive in some other body style, such as a Lemans, Catalina, or GP. My preference would be a Cam Am. I think one of those would be so cool.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

(2) The '68 Bird with either the 330hp D-port engine, or the RAII round port engine has always been a very competitive combo.

(3) The 455HO engine has always been competitive, in most all body combos. Scott Underhill recently held the nat record in E/SA, with his 455HO powered T-37.

(4) The '68 & '69 350hp GTO. This is basically the same engine as the '68 & '69 330hp Bird engine, but has a lower hp factor, at 325hp. Don't know of a single '69 GTO Stocker currently in competition. Might be because of the high value of an original or restored real GTO.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

Don't know if the increased wind drag of the A-body, over the Bird body, would offset the hp factor difference or not. Maybe some of you guys can tell us how much difference, just the wind drag would make. I understand that the A-body is heavier. Just referring to the ET difference caused by the aerodynamic difference in the 2 body styles.

Because of the value of the round port heads, especially the SD455 & RAIV heads, I'd say that round port head combos would not be a good choice for a new Pontiac Stocker build. Because of the availability and price of the 6X heads, I'd say the '77 180hp 400, in a non-Bird body, is the best choice.

(5) For those who insist on a '77 Bird body, the 170hp 350 might be more competitive.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

(6) 1974 225hp 400. For those wanting to use a mid '70's Bird body, this may be better than a '77, since the hp factor is 275hp. Tommy Brown uses this engine in a Lemans, & has been the highest Pontiac qualifier on several Q-lists I've seen. I think Don Turk & Don Elgin have also done well with this engine in A-bodies. And we've already talked about Bob Mulry's '74 Bird, which may be the quickest Pontiac ever, against it's index. Don't know for sure.

(7) The '73 250hp 455, in a Bird, at only a 306hp factor, is the best low CR D-port 455 combo. I think Michael Brand & Adam Davis made this combo popular, a few years back, with their '73 Formulas.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...79&MAKE=Pontia

[8) Being a GTO fan, I like Todd Kuhn's D-port 455 '70 GTO. My first 455 was out of one of these cars. With just a change to a Pontiac 041 cam, it ran 12.40's in our '68 Bird. And that was with only 3.55 gears & a stock 13" converter. At only 340hp, I figure this engine has more potential than most any other Pontiac engine. It has high compression & big cubes. In fact, the '70 455 is the ONLY high compression 455. The #64 heads are not real easy to find. But, they'll be cheaper than any round ports.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...0&MAKE=Pontiac

Then there is the 301. Billy Nees probably knows more about the non-turbo 301 than anybody else. And I suppose Rick Unterseh is the 301T guy. But, this is not a good combo for others to consider, IMO, because the needed 301T blocks & cranks are getting so hard to find.

Of course there are many other combos that can be used, which can easily be made to run under the index. And, since, except for same class heads-up runs, Stock is basically a bracket race, as long as you can run your index or quicker, you can win a race.

Mike Morgan won his class at Indy, a few years back, with a '76 400 Bird. Ryan Warter has done well with a '75 Bird. Ryan Schloe did OK with a '71 455 D-port Bird. As mentioned, Adam Strang ran high 10's with the '68 350HO engine, in his '68 bird.

If there have been any competitive 2-barrel Pontiacs, I'm not aware of 'em. Anybody know of any ?

01-27-2020, 12:53 PM	#11
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers Most here know how quick NHRA hp factors can change. And many times those changes can make certain combos either more or less competitive, for the heads-up runs. But, as of right now, there are a few Pontiac combos which seem to be more competitive than most others. I'll make a list, in very roughly the order I think they fall, as to the most competitive. I am by no means the Pontiac expert here. So, for those Pontiac guys who have a different opinion as to the correct order, I'd like to hear all opinions. (1) Has to be a 1977 180hp 400. Since this engine is factored so much higher if in a Bird, it has to be more competitive in some other body style, such as a Lemans, Catalina, or GP. My preference would be a Cam Am. I think one of those would be so cool. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac (2) The '68 Bird with either the 330hp D-port engine, or the RAII round port engine has always been a very competitive combo. (3) The 455HO engine has always been competitive, in most all body combos. Scott Underhill recently held the nat record in E/SA, with his 455HO powered T-37. (4) The '68 & '69 350hp GTO. This is basically the same engine as the '68 & '69 330hp Bird engine, but has a lower hp factor, at 325hp. Don't know of a single '69 GTO Stocker currently in competition. Might be because of the high value of an original or restored real GTO. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac Don't know if the increased wind drag of the A-body, over the Bird body, would offset the hp factor difference or not. Maybe some of you guys can tell us how much difference, just the wind drag would make. I understand that the A-body is heavier. Just referring to the ET difference caused by the aerodynamic difference in the 2 body styles. Because of the value of the round port heads, especially the SD455 & RAIV heads, I'd say that round port head combos would not be a good choice for a new Pontiac Stocker build. Because of the availability and price of the 6X heads, I'd say the '77 180hp 400, in a non-Bird body, is the best choice. (5) For those who insist on a '77 Bird body, the 170hp 350 might be more competitive. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac (6) 1974 225hp 400. For those wanting to use a mid '70's Bird body, this may be better than a '77, since the hp factor is 275hp. Tommy Brown uses this engine in a Lemans, & has been the highest Pontiac qualifier on several Q-lists I've seen. I think Don Turk & Don Elgin have also done well with this engine in A-bodies. And we've already talked about Bob Mulry's '74 Bird, which may be the quickest Pontiac ever, against it's index. Don't know for sure. (7) The '73 250hp 455, in a Bird, at only a 306hp factor, is the best low CR D-port 455 combo. I think Michael Brand & Adam Davis made this combo popular, a few years back, with their '73 Formulas. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...79&MAKE=Pontia [8) Being a GTO fan, I like Todd Kuhn's D-port 455 '70 GTO. My first 455 was out of one of these cars. With just a change to a Pontiac 041 cam, it ran 12.40's in our '68 Bird. And that was with only 3.55 gears & a stock 13" converter. At only 340hp, I figure this engine has more potential than most any other Pontiac engine. It has high compression & big cubes. In fact, the '70 455 is the ONLY high compression 455. The #64 heads are not real easy to find. But, they'll be cheaper than any round ports. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...0&MAKE=Pontiac Then there is the 301. Billy Nees probably knows more about the non-turbo 301 than anybody else. And I suppose Rick Unterseh is the 301T guy. But, this is not a good combo for others to consider, IMO, because the needed 301T blocks & cranks are getting so hard to find. Of course there are many other combos that can be used, which can easily be made to run under the index. And, since, except for same class heads-up runs, Stock is basically a bracket race, as long as you can run your index or quicker, you can win a race. Mike Morgan won his class at Indy, a few years back, with a '76 400 Bird. Ryan Warter has done well with a '75 Bird. Ryan Schloe did OK with a '71 455 D-port Bird. As mentioned, Adam Strang ran high 10's with the '68 350HO engine, in his '68 bird. If there have been any competitive 2-barrel Pontiacs, I'm not aware of 'em. Anybody know of any ? Last edited by oldskool; 02-03-2020 at 02:59 AM.