Just a jealous "cheap shot"

[Rory McNeil]

Just to set the record straight, Brian Seaberg , Steve Horton, and a couple of other guys were racing the same 302 2 barrel Fords for years before NHRA reduced the HP ratings back to factory numbers. Seaburgs Comet was a P&Q/SA car at that time. In fact, I had considered building a 79 Fairmont 302 2 barrel 4 speed combo in the early 2000s, but at that time, NHRA had bumped pretty much all the 302-318 sized 2 barrel smogger engines to 200 HP, so building my 85 Mustang 302 4 barrel just made more sense. Over the recent past, NHRA dropped the 302 2 barrel engines down to 180, 170, and eventually 165HP, before reducing them down to their factory HP ratings, which varied from 129-145 depending on year and car model. Unlike many other more mainstream combos, at least these low HP Ford 302s are actually wearing their factory issued, correct part number heads, intake manifolds and carbs, not a bunch of NHRA approved, superceded "not worth a thing performancewise" aftermarket aluminum heads, intakes, and carburators.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Just to set the record straight, Brian Seaberg , Steve Horton, and a couple of other guys were racing the same 302 2 barrel Fords for years before NHRA reduced the HP ratings back to factory numbers. Seaburgs Comet was a P&Q/SA car at that time. In fact, I had considered building a 79 Fairmont 302 2 barrel 4 speed combo in the early 2000s, but at that time, NHRA had bumped pretty much all the 302-318 sized 2 barrel smogger engines to 200 HP, so building my 85 Mustang 302 4 barrel just made more sense. Over the recent past, NHRA dropped the 302 2 barrel engines down to 180, 170, and eventually 185HP, before reducing them down to their factory HP ratings, which varied from 129-145 depending on year and car model. Unlike many other more mainstream combos, at least these low HP Ford 302s are actually wearing their factory issued, correct part number heads, intake manifolds and carbs, not a bunch of NHRA approved, superceded "not worth a thing performancewise" aftermarket aluminum heads, intakes, and carburators.

Thanks Rory. good post.

[Jack McCarthy]

IF anyone involved in the technical dept had clue none of this would have happened ... none of it. It is insane you can write a letter and get a 200 hp combo to 133 and someone would approve it affecting over 200 combos and not even think "hmm maybe I should research this" Well here ya go this is what happens longtime racers with long standing combos like me and Ron get screwed. If shaw finds one combo I can follow him around get him hit .... 200 combos affected I'm dead I WILL NEVER win class at Indy again.
Anyway thanks pat c you've probably got next years #1 qualifier on your desk or in your inbox ...

Captain

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Just to set the record straight, Brian Seaberg , Steve Horton, and a couple of other guys were racing the same 302 2 barrel Fords for years before NHRA reduced the HP ratings back to factory numbers. Seaburgs Comet was a P&Q/SA car at that time. In fact, I had considered building a 79 Fairmont 302 2 barrel 4 speed combo in the early 2000s, but at that time, NHRA had bumped pretty much all the 302-318 sized 2 barrel smogger engines to 200 HP, so building my 85 Mustang 302 4 barrel just made more sense. Over the recent past, NHRA dropped the 302 2 barrel engines down to 180, 170, and eventually 185HP, before reducing them down to their factory HP ratings, which varied from 129-145 depending on year and car model. Unlike many other more mainstream combos, at least these low HP Ford 302s are actually wearing their factory issued, correct part number heads, intake manifolds and carbs, not a bunch of NHRA approved, superceded "not worth a thing performancewise" aftermarket aluminum heads, intakes, and carburators.

Thanks, Rory
I was going to mention those guys, but forgot.
Also, let's not forget.
Gary Summers was already setting stick shift records with the Mustang II when it was in the 170 range. It wasn't long after that the West Coast brain trust reduced them all to factory net HP.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Ron, there is a more complicating issue with the Fords. While the Grahams and Summers have been hit several times this year, their current combinations are not included. That's the reason they both switched to Mustangs. The 163 factor for the 76 302 that was accomplished in the Maverick applies to every 1976 Ford model except the Mustang. The Mustang remains at 133. Every time I try to make sense out of that, I just spin in my chair and short circuit. Seeburg's Comet is still at factory rated 143 and has not been hit.

So it will take mega-years at this rate to get them straightened out, especially since there is a 10 year spread of cars (1971-1980) that those guys can resource.

Dwight, As you know, the Mustang II is a completely different platform.
At one time, the 72 Chevy 350 had five different factory, depending on the body style. There's a good argument for this, but it does seem a bit strange when the Corvette is rated less than the Nova.
In my opinion, NHRA came up with the AHFS so they'd have a computerized system that didn't require human forethought and intervention. That would take a few competent people, like in the old days.
Now we see how easily it can be manipulated.
So, it depends on how you want the game played, as far as certain body styles being hit. I'm still on the fence about that.

Here's one that bothers me. GT S/S was supposed to be for 1980 or newer cars.
Now, any year is okay.
So, if you have a 66 Chevy II stick car in regular S/S , and the HP gets too high, you just run it in GT. You don't even have to claim a 64 or 65 283 /220, which was the original intent of GT.
Does this make any sense to anybody?

[Dwight Southerland]

Mark, I understand what you are describing in that different body-chassis considerations sometimes has an effect on the factoring decisions, but in the case of the '76 302, they hit the Maverick-Comet and the Granada-Monarch (different platform), but passed on the Mustang II. Puts wrinkles in my brow.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Mark, I understand what you are describing in that different body-chassis considerations sometimes has an effect on the factoring decisions, but in the case of the '76 302, they hit the Maverick-Comet and the Granada-Monarch (different platform), but passed on the Mustang II. Puts wrinkles in my brow.

Good point. Hit possibly the worst one and not the best.
Goes to what I was alluding to..Incompetence

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Do you really think that if NHRA dropped the factor on the 307 or the 304 or 318 (or 283,289,273,290,318poly,348,352,361,etc,etc,etc) only 2 or 3 would be built? I personally believe, looking at how many FFFords that have been or are being built, if you gave the un-washed masses a Chevy equivalent to the 302, there would be dozens of them out there. With the popularity of NHRA Stock, Nostalgia and Jr. Stock right now, I don't see how they wouldn't be built.

Re-thinking my comment.
I was meaning to say was not many would be built for the national stage.
How many Tri- 5's do you see being built since they have been brought back?
Let's face it. Most guys that can afford the 5-6 points meet / National event entry game, can afford to build a fairly late model, 10 second car that does a big wheelie for the camera.
I didn't think about the independent S/SS association races.
Yes, you are probably right that several would be built for that venue.
But NHRA doesn't get much of a piece of that action, so there's no interest there.

[DRAKE VISCOME]

Hey Billy...so... after all...the "smoke" with regard to top several qualifiers...it didn't seem to be that much in final results (?)...NEVER in anyway to take anything away from...incredible their.. accomplishments...in a word...AWESOME...just am "old" (a touch or two...maybe more than you !!!...lol) guess I'm missing something...or just haven't got up to speed on current thought process (?)...the qualifying "thing"...how that seemingly has become...well...litterally as important as the actual race results (?)...my faded memory suggests that only a few times...whether National Event level or points series stuff...do the...top 5 qualifiers or so...actually prevail/win...again willing to accept a spanking...if...I'm out of bounds here...as Ricky Ricardo used to say "splain to me Lucy"...lol...believe me...I sincerely have lots & lots of regard for you & Mark (and others)...who have done/accomplished so much...with so little...me...accomplished...not too much...with a lot !!! lol...BUT...I have ownership (55+ years of it) of more than my fair share of the 8 million "stories" (not all fit for public consumption) in the Naked City...and...that's the whole truth...nothing...but the truth...!!!...would you be kind enough to just "tune me up" a bit (bring me into modern ages)...about this whole qualifying deal ???...maybe just time to put away shoe polish for the windows... thanx Billy...always wishing you continued good health...success...imagine that !!! Drake

[kansas stocker]

A class trophy at Indy is an important thing to a lot of people including me.
Just asking for a level playing field.
Pete