curious Ford ???

FED 387 · 07-16-2012, 06:48 PM

not really into the newer cars(S or SS) especially Ford products I'm curious about the limited production(drag paks,CJ whatever they call them) cars that Ford has been selling the last coupla years are all of these engines based on the Small Block type of engine and technology multi valve turbo,supercharged whatever or are some of them Big Block engines as we all knew them??--not looking to piss on any ones parade just a reasonable explanation of what they are doing--thank you FED 387

BlueOval Ralph · 07-16-2012, 07:03 PM

All Ford 50 car builds we're the modular based engine family Multi valve this engine is on 100 mm bore center. The 352 is based off the 8.20 deck height 302 block and the 428 is based off the 351 w deck height block but not with 3.00 main bearing dia. These are on a 4.380 bore center design neither of the these we're factory installed you have buy the individual parts and build the engine your self, last time I checked you couldn't buy a complete engine from Ford.

Ken Miele · 07-16-2012, 07:22 PM

The drag packs are the Dodge. The new Cobra Jets from 08 to present use factory engines modified for stock. The are basically all small blocks. This new generation engine, built in 1991 and called a Modular. The Modular design was used to make many different configurations base on one design.

Engine sizes range for 281 to 330 for the 2008 to 2010. For the 2012 and 2013 a 5.0, now called Coyote is the new engine design, its heritage came from the Modular engine family, but no parts will interchange.

There are 4 combo that are available and use the traditional ford small block engine design that can be use in the 2010 and 2013 CJ's. They are the 352 and 363 which is based on the old 302 and the 427 and 428 based on the old 351.

All engines are consider small blocks.

FED 387 · 07-16-2012, 07:38 PM

thanks for the quick replies---so does Ford offer anything with what you would consider a Big Block type of engine FROM THE FACTORY or is everything the modular/small block configuration in any of the limited production(drag race only) vehicles??? sorry did not want to step on anyones toes (drag pak/cobra jet) I miss spoke here just trying to get my point across of the type of vehicles I was referring to-----Thanx FED387

Ken Miele · 07-16-2012, 07:51 PM

No traditional big blocks as we would know it is offered in the new CJ's.

BlueOval Ralph · 07-16-2012, 08:40 PM

The V-10 used in the trucks are are from the modular line if engines!

FED 387 · 07-16-2012, 08:54 PM

Ralph & Ken thanks for the updates--glad to see that the Big 3 all have entries either out there or coming up shortly---good luck with all your racing endeavores hope to meet you at the races sometime soon. FED387

69Cobra · 07-17-2012, 02:02 AM

Hey Ken or Ralph,
Just to take this a step farther. Am I correct in thinking that the 5.8 that's in the new shelby 500 is basically the 5.4 with a bore or stroke change? Or is it a bigger coyote design? Speaking of the coyote... what is really different between the traditional mod motor and the coyote?

BlueOval Ralph · 07-17-2012, 08:48 AM

5.8 is stroked 5.4

Ken Miele · 07-20-2012, 10:20 PM

Kris,

Actually the 5.8 now called Trinity, is an over bored 5.4. 90.2 mm bore to 93.3 mm, using the stock 5.4 stroke. Stroking was not an option since the 5.4 was designed to its maximum bore and stroke. The only way to increase stroke was to raise the deck height, not option according to Ford. The only thing left was the bore. Here is where it gets interesting. Instead of using iron liners that are typical in all aluminum blocks, Ford used a technology called Plasma Transfer Wire Arc. Basically it sprays iron on to the cylinders walls. This way you do not need the thick liners, taking the bore out farther. Its really an amazing technology that Ford has come up with. They teamed up with a company called Flame-Spray Industries in Long Island, New York. Ford is holding 25 patents in this technology. The have already licensed this technology to Nissan for its GT-R.

There really is nothing similar with the old mod design engine and the new coyote engine. Ford started with a clean sheet of paper. The four valve heads are slightly narrower and use variable cam timing and direct fuel injection. No parts are interchangeable.

07-16-2012, 06:48 PM	#1
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,416 Likes: 522 Liked 330 Times in 178 Posts	curious Ford ??? not really into the newer cars(S or SS) especially Ford products I'm curious about the limited production(drag paks,CJ whatever they call them) cars that Ford has been selling the last coupla years are all of these engines based on the Small Block type of engine and technology multi valve turbo,supercharged whatever or are some of them Big Block engines as we all knew them??--not looking to piss on any ones parade just a reasonable explanation of what they are doing--thank you FED 387

07-16-2012, 07:03 PM	#2
BlueOval Ralph Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 852 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: curious Ford ??? All Ford 50 car builds we're the modular based engine family Multi valve this engine is on 100 mm bore center. The 352 is based off the 8.20 deck height 302 block and the 428 is based off the 351 w deck height block but not with 3.00 main bearing dia. These are on a 4.380 bore center design neither of the these we're factory installed you have buy the individual parts and build the engine your self, last time I checked you couldn't buy a complete engine from Ford.

07-16-2012, 07:22 PM	#3
Ken Miele Live Reporter Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 4,860 Likes: 456 Liked 16,540 Times in 1,521 Posts	Re: curious Ford ??? The drag packs are the Dodge. The new Cobra Jets from 08 to present use factory engines modified for stock. The are basically all small blocks. This new generation engine, built in 1991 and called a Modular. The Modular design was used to make many different configurations base on one design. Engine sizes range for 281 to 330 for the 2008 to 2010. For the 2012 and 2013 a 5.0, now called Coyote is the new engine design, its heritage came from the Modular engine family, but no parts will interchange. There are 4 combo that are available and use the traditional ford small block engine design that can be use in the 2010 and 2013 CJ's. They are the 352 and 363 which is based on the old 302 and the 427 and 428 based on the old 351. All engines are consider small blocks.

07-16-2012, 07:38 PM	#4
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,416 Likes: 522 Liked 330 Times in 178 Posts	Re: curious Ford ??? thanks for the quick replies---so does Ford offer anything with what you would consider a Big Block type of engine FROM THE FACTORY or is everything the modular/small block configuration in any of the limited production(drag race only) vehicles??? sorry did not want to step on anyones toes (drag pak/cobra jet) I miss spoke here just trying to get my point across of the type of vehicles I was referring to-----Thanx FED387

07-16-2012, 07:51 PM	#5
Ken Miele Live Reporter Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 4,860 Likes: 456 Liked 16,540 Times in 1,521 Posts	Re: curious Ford ??? No traditional big blocks as we would know it is offered in the new CJ's.

07-16-2012, 08:40 PM	#6
BlueOval Ralph Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 852 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: curious Ford ??? The V-10 used in the trucks are are from the modular line if engines!

07-16-2012, 08:54 PM	#7
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,416 Likes: 522 Liked 330 Times in 178 Posts	Re: curious Ford ??? Ralph & Ken thanks for the updates--glad to see that the Big 3 all have entries either out there or coming up shortly---good luck with all your racing endeavores hope to meet you at the races sometime soon. FED387

07-17-2012, 02:02 AM	#8
69Cobra Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: California, Ky Posts: 669 Likes: 61 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: curious Ford ??? Hey Ken or Ralph, Just to take this a step farther. Am I correct in thinking that the 5.8 that's in the new shelby 500 is basically the 5.4 with a bore or stroke change? Or is it a bigger coyote design? Speaking of the coyote... what is really different between the traditional mod motor and the coyote? __________________ Kris Rachford 69 Cobra 428CJ 4 Speed C/S 3032

07-17-2012, 08:48 AM	#9
BlueOval Ralph Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 852 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: curious Ford ??? 5.8 is stroked 5.4

07-20-2012, 10:20 PM	#10
Ken Miele Live Reporter Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 4,860 Likes: 456 Liked 16,540 Times in 1,521 Posts	Re: curious Ford ??? Kris, Actually the 5.8 now called Trinity, is an over bored 5.4. 90.2 mm bore to 93.3 mm, using the stock 5.4 stroke. Stroking was not an option since the 5.4 was designed to its maximum bore and stroke. The only way to increase stroke was to raise the deck height, not option according to Ford. The only thing left was the bore. Here is where it gets interesting. Instead of using iron liners that are typical in all aluminum blocks, Ford used a technology called Plasma Transfer Wire Arc. Basically it sprays iron on to the cylinders walls. This way you do not need the thick liners, taking the bore out farther. Its really an amazing technology that Ford has come up with. They teamed up with a company called Flame-Spray Industries in Long Island, New York. Ford is holding 25 patents in this technology. The have already licensed this technology to Nissan for its GT-R. There really is nothing similar with the old mod design engine and the new coyote engine. Ford started with a clean sheet of paper. The four valve heads are slightly narrower and use variable cam timing and direct fuel injection. No parts are interchangeable.