Camshaft failure

[Bob Pagano]

Oil with zinc. Valvoline Race, Joe Gibbs, Amziol and another I do not recall at the moment.

[Bill Edgeworth]

It’s also a good idea to spend the extra $100 and have the cam nitrided. This can make a huge difference in cam wear. with Comp just ask for Item # 1-111-1 thats the add on to have the cam nitrided.

[Adger Smith]

I need to add a few more things about camshaft failure... Sorry I left this out of my last oil/ cam article. :~) .
There will be instances when you do everything as right as you possibly can and still flatten a hydraulic or solid flat tappet cam. I think the primary reason is the failure of the lifter to keep spinning. There can be several reasons for that, but the most common are lifter bore(s) too tight and grab a lifter…or a piece of grit migrates “out of hiding” and gets between the lifter and the bore….it still goes up and down but doesn’t spin….cam flat. Some of these particles get magnetized and all the washing with hot soapy water will not dislodge them….BUT….continually flush them with hot oil and……Guess where they go & what is the results.
Every engine I do gets a Sunnen precision Hone run through the lifter bores with a #13 stone in it. Ball hones & Brake Cyl hones will not do what the Sunnen hone does, make the lifter bore straight & round... The same hone I use when doing lifter bore bushings, different stone.
Crate Camaro,
Where in the world did you get the information about the Comp Additive being taken off the market? I was ordering a couple of cams & lifters today from Comp and ask about the validity of your comment. My buddy Tim Cole responded:

COMP Cams is definitely NOT going to discontinue the 159 oil additive.

I just ran out today & I order it by the case. Good stuff!
Crate Camaro,
You were on to something with the moly lube on the cam lobes. There is a less abrasive type of moly than the ARP bolt moly.
Oh, just one other point. Wash the cam & lifters and check each lifter for the proper curvature. I've found some lifters that customers get a deal on that are almost flat. When they are put on a very active came lobe they grab & don't spin. It is the curvature of the lifter plus the degree of angle/taper ground on the lobe that makes a lifter spin. The taper is also what keeps the timing gear pulld back against the front of the block. Have you ever seen a block that has had the timing gear eat into it? You can bet it was a cam lobe. problem that most likely caused it.

Ben,
Thanks for the kind words. Good luck with your re build.

[dartman]

More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Motor Oil



http://micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

[Alan Roehrich]

Adger is correct, Comp is not taking their additive off the market. GM EOS is a hit or miss deal, they have some, or they don't, you never know if or when, get it when you can, and buy a case. I'm betting the disaster that they are in now will not make that better.

Be aware that you can only get so much ZDDP to blend into motor oil, and more is not better. Excess ZDDP can cause problems, it gets into places it should not, and leaves deposits. If you have a real race motor oil that has ZDDP in it, adding the other stuff usually will not make it better.

Some of the synthetic oils use ZDDP, some use other additives. Some work, some do not.

The big block Chevy is notorious for eating cams. You'll often get a block that will just eat flat tappet cams, period. That is the best reason I can give you for boring the lifter bores out with a BHJ fixture and bushing the lifter bores. You'll note blocks that eat cams often score the front behind the timing gear. That is also often caused by an out of position lifter bore. Or three. Or four.

NEVER buy a cheap lifter. You cannot possibly save enough money to pay for the risk. One flat cam lobe will cost you a complete rebuild. Now, was saving $50 really worth all of that? Cheap cams are the same way. What you save won't buy a gasket set and a case of oil and a filter.

Bill is also correct, the nitrided cam is the way to go. When combined with a true high quality lifter, and the correct break in procedure, the results are excellent. What you're after here is to have enough crown on the lifter face, and enough taper on the lobe to make the lifter spin. But you also need the lifter and cam to be hard enough to slide on each other. Finally, the finish on both pieces has to leave them slick enough not to stick to each other.

[Michael Pliska]

A couple of questions:

1) Is the zinc and single-weight oil necessary for break-in with a roller cam BBC? Using Total Seal gapless second rings.

2) Is an additive necessary for an already-broken-in hydraulic flat-tappet SBC?

For both these engines, I plan on using (at least until I run out of it) older Castrol GTX 20W-50. I've had a few cases of the oil around since I used to run both cars back in the early 90's. I've already been using it in engine #2 since I put in new rings and bearings (just reused the camshaft and put the lifters and pushrods in the same locations).

Regards,

[John Mason]

On a similar note, I pulled my SS motor out to exchange for a summertime bracket motor. It has never seen anything but Gibbs XP3 except for 3 heads up runs where it had XP0. The pan had about 2 cups full of sludge that felt like cam moly lube mixed with oil. When rubbed between the fingers it disappeared. The bearings were perfect but the sludge concerned me. I called Hetler, who said he has seen this with those using XP0 after other Gibbs oils. He felt it had something to do with the additives in Gibbs oil.
Any other experiences like this, or comments?

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by John Mason

On a similar note, I pulled my SS motor out to exchange for a summertime bracket motor. It has never seen anything but Gibbs XP3 except for 3 heads up runs where it had XP0. The pan had about 2 cups full of sludge that felt like cam moly lube mixed with oil. When rubbed between the fingers it disappeared. The bearings were perfect but the sludge concerned me. I called Hetler, who said he has seen this with those using XP0 after other Gibbs oils. He felt it had something to do with the additives in Gibbs oil.
Any other experiences like this, or comments?

It's something in the Joe Gibbs oil. When we pulled the engine out of the Camaro, there was 2" of that stuff in the bottom of the pan. It never had anything but XP2 in it after we broke it in on Rotella. I think it is how Joe Gibbs oil reacts to gasoline. It appears to be fairly common.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Michael Pliska

A couple of questions:

1) Is the zinc and single-weight oil necessary for break-in with a roller cam BBC? Using Total Seal gapless second rings.

2) Is an additive necessary for an already-broken-in hydraulic flat-tappet SBC?

For both these engines, I plan on using (at least until I run out of it) older Castrol GTX 20W-50. I've had a few cases of the oil around since I used to run both cars back in the early 90's. I've already been using it in engine #2 since I put in new rings and bearings (just reused the camshaft and put the lifters and pushrods in the same locations).

Regards,

Roller camshafts don't break in. But a good mineral base oil is really necessary for initial ring seating in most cases. No comment of the gapless second ring (and yeah, I run Total Seal, just no gapless rings at all, ever).

I suppose a certain amount of ZDDP is necessary, in most cases with flat tappet cams, although I also think some synthetic oils have a good enough extreme pressure package that they work without ZDDP.

[njk53]

So bottom line, what are you guys using for oil/additives in your race car?