Easy way to help AHFS work

thomas sheehan · 10-28-2021, 09:42 AM

Do you want to see racers qualify with all out runs?
Do you want to make the AHFS system work.
Give the racer a reason to cut her loose!
How about a first round BYE?
Not just for #1..... but how about 1-10 byes in round one?

Do you know anyone that would rather run against someone in round 1 rather than take a BYE run?... (answer is NO)
If someone wants to take a chance that their -.90 run will get them in the top ten (while running their restrictor plate, they take a chance that others will bump them out of the BYE group.
Here's where we use "Out of the box thinking"... NHRA uses a "randomizer" after all qualifying is complete, and then lets everyone know how many bye runs there will be. One week there could be 10, next week 7, next week 5... who knows? Maybe they even guarantee 5 first round byes per race. Then everyone shoots for top 5
Just look at the guys that cut her loose at the end of the year to get #1 spots for nothing more than a first round BYE,10 more points, and not having to run anyone in the dreaded first round! If more people are chasing a first round BYE, more people go fast and make the AHFS work.... "It ain't that hard to do"
REWARDS BRING RESULTS

GTS340 · 10-28-2021, 12:36 PM

And the ladder formula is?

thomas sheehan · 10-28-2021, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTS340

And the ladder formula is?

....should not be an issue - just something different.

example #1 ... 64 car field
NHRA gave top 8 a bye run (the rest run rd 1 on a normal 56 car ladder).
rd two would be reladdered with the 8 byes and the 28 winners (new 36 car ladder).

It's not that hard.. with in the first couple of weeks, someone will have a new ladder book for all to use (for every situation available)

OR.....

Better yet
example #2.... (same scenario as example #1 - 64 cars with 8 byes earned)
Just use the standard 72 car ladder!
(1vs37, 2vs38, 3vs39... 8vs44)
All you would have to do is insert dummy entries called #BYERUNS into the qualified field for qualifier 37-44 droppng everyone else down 8 spots to fill out the 72 car ladder.
Easy Peasy... case closed

GTS340 · 10-28-2021, 01:42 PM

So 59 cars pay entry money. You need a 69 car ladder. No time and money involved there.

GTS340 · 10-28-2021, 01:54 PM

Just our special classes need this too. I'm sure NHRA would say "perfect"

MikeMoller · 10-31-2021, 10:19 AM

Kinda off subject, but if someone goes -1.20 and has to tear down, and is certified legal, and the run is under the current NHRA record, I think NHRA should give them the record. As it is, you get NOTHING for going -1.20 except the 'privilege' of tearing down and getting HP-what?

SS/GSI · 10-31-2021, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas sheehan

Do you want to see racers qualify with all out runs?
Do you want to make the AHFS system work.
Give the racer a reason to cut her loose!
How about a first round BYE?
Not just for #1..... but how about 1-10 byes in round one?

Do you know anyone that would rather run against someone in round 1 rather than take a BYE run?... (answer is NO)
If someone wants to take a chance that their -.90 run will get them in the top ten (while running their restrictor plate, they take a chance that others will bump them out of the BYE group.
Here's where we use "Out of the box thinking"... NHRA uses a "randomizer" after all qualifying is complete, and then lets everyone know how many bye runs there will be. One week there could be 10, next week 7, next week 5... who knows? Maybe they even guarantee 5 first round byes per race. Then everyone shoots for top 5
Just look at the guys that cut her loose at the end of the year to get #1 spots for nothing more than a first round BYE,10 more points, and not having to run anyone in the dreaded first round! If more people are chasing a first round BYE, more people go fast and make the AHFS work.... "It ain't that hard to do"
REWARDS BRING RESULTS

Tom, I respectfully disagree with everything you and a lot of others have voiced on this forum regarding how to fix the AHFS system. Like most people with an agenda to get "soft" combinations HP, they only have tunnel vision for the FIX but do not see the big picture. Is there under factored combinations, YES!!! Have those competitors played within the rules of NHRA to keep their HP factors down, YES!!! Sorry nobody wants to destroy there combo to be #1 at a nothing divisional or national event!!!

What nobody here is mentioning is how "OLD" combos got HP!!! Class runoffs and rivalries within a specific class. Being the badest B/SA or GT/HA car use to mean something. But now everyone dodges everyone to avoid heads ups in the "eliminator"!!! Given the 30 newly added FS, FSS and FGT classes, manufacturer crate motor GT combos, the dozens of mid "80's & '90"s combinations in STK/SS added in the last decade, stockers running SS, the loss of shipping weights in GT and cars being able to run SS or GT with same combo...all that coupled with class runoffs being cut down by more than half, a Performers Award system that disappeared overnight, lowered quotas at National Events, an annual review period(instead of semi annual) and the price of engines being North of 50k in SS, ya I'm gonna say that getting HP will be nearly impossible moving forward!!!

So instead of trying to MF all the guys with soft combos by adding ridiculous measures on them(ie. checking weight at the scales, restrictor plates, 1000' increments +++) why doesn't the SRAC and the NHRA simply bring back what is proven to work???!!! OHHH and just curious on who will be the mathematician "chosen one" that will figure out everyone's backhalf splits, how fast they "could have gone" with 115#'s out of the car!!! No offense, but I'm not exactly confident in most peoples ability to do simple math.

But keep pounding your personal agendas...just like all the other special interests groups in Canada and the USA, I'm positive that you will get your way!!! If you guys want everyone to be the same...there index classes you can run! STK and SS are performance based classes!

PS: How did that whole AHFS at Indy thing work out for the less than 20% of racers that wanted it!!! That's what I thought...The problem with thinking other people are stupid does not automatically make you smarter than them.

IMHO

1347 · 10-31-2021, 01:09 PM

Give points to #1 qualifier, a little competition at getting points along with the bye run may help.

Mark Yacavone · 10-31-2021, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS/GSI

Tom, I respectfully disagree with everything you and a lot of others have voiced on this forum regarding how to fix the AHFS system. Like most people with an agenda to get "soft" combinations HP, they only have tunnel vision for the FIX but do not see the big picture. Is there under factored combinations, YES!!! Have those competitors played within the rules of NHRA to keep their HP factors down, YES!!! Sorry nobody wants to destroy there combo to be #1 at a nothing divisional or national event!!!

What nobody here is mentioning is how "OLD" combos got HP!!! Class runoffs and rivalries within a specific class. Being the badest B/SA or GT/HA car use to mean something. But now everyone dodges everyone to avoid heads ups in the "eliminator"!!! Given the 30 newly added FS, FSS and FGT classes, manufacturer crate motor GT combos, the dozens of mid "80's & '90"s combinations in STK/SS added in the last decade, stockers running SS, the loss of shipping weights in GT and cars being able to run SS or GT with same combo...all that coupled with class runoffs being cut down by more than half, a Performers Award system that disappeared overnight, lowered quotas at National Events, an annual review period(instead of semi annual) and the price of engines being North of 50k in SS, ya I'm gonna say that getting HP will be nearly impossible moving forward!!!

So instead of trying to MF all the guys with soft combos by adding ridiculous measures on them(ie. checking weight at the scales, restrictor plates, 1000' increments +++) why doesn't the SRAC and the NHRA simply bring back what is proven to work???!!! OHHH and just curious on who will be the mathematician "chosen one" that will figure out everyone's backhalf splits, how fast they "could have gone" with 115#'s out of the car!!! No offense, but I'm not exactly confident in most peoples ability to do simple math.

But keep pounding your personal agendas...just like all the other special interests groups in Canada and the USA, I'm positive that you will get your way!!! If you guys want everyone to be the same...there index classes you can run! STK and SS are performance based classes!

PS: How did that whole AHFS at Indy thing work out for the less than 20% of racers that wanted it!!! That's what I thought...The problem with thinking other people are stupid does not automatically make you smarter than them.

IMHO

Kevin, Where are we going with this? I don't disagree with much of what you said, but what would be your plan?
Tom put forth his. NHRA isn't going to do it, but that's the theme here.

Charley Downing · 10-31-2021, 01:47 PM

AHFS will never work with its current leadership. Now if Lonnie Grimm cleans house/ eliminates the problem, then it might have a chance but let’s face it AHFS has had the same problems 10-15 plus years now.
1. You can run -1.10 at an event and go to the next event and make 2 passes at -.55 to bring your average back to under-.80 making it safe from HP.
This window to lower your combo average are passes of -.85 to -.35. This window is way to big. I mean how can some make an argument that one weekend a guy runs -1.00 and the next weekend there making runs at below -.60. to pull the average down. There is no logic to this window. Personally, if a combo can run -1.00 then no runs under -.65 should count in lowering the class average

2. I Think the most important thing that will help AHFS work and put NEEDED performance back in the SS/STK class is going to a 48 or 64 car field at ALL National events (But INDY). Let’s face it the national event quotes are not going back to 80 plus cars per class at most national events so let’s just meet in the middle make all the quotes 70 cars per stk and ss. This will make guys step on there cars a little more frequently. I personal would like to see 48 car national event fields with around 60-65 car quotes. This would reward the #1 with the potential semi final bye into the final. I would leave points meet at 128 car fields and national open at all run field. This would create a kind of steppingstone affect for the class depend on you combos performance. This would also eliminate the 105 points Issue for winning a 6 or 7 round national event (East Coast VS West Coast) if all the National events were a 6 round max to win.

3. All runs of over -1.00 should have a min carb/TB check, casting # check and a PG if time permitting.

10-28-2021, 01:42 PM	#4
GTS340 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Las Vegas, Nv Posts: 751 Likes: 192 Liked 1,077 Times in 338 Posts	Re: Easy way to help AHFS work So 59 cars pay entry money. You need a 69 car ladder. No time and money involved there.

10-28-2021, 01:54 PM	#5
GTS340 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Las Vegas, Nv Posts: 751 Likes: 192 Liked 1,077 Times in 338 Posts	Re: Easy way to help AHFS work Just our special classes need this too. I'm sure NHRA would say "perfect"

10-31-2021, 10:19 AM	#6
MikeMoller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Raleigh NC Posts: 629 Likes: 27 Liked 244 Times in 74 Posts	Re: Easy way to help AHFS work Kinda off subject, but if someone goes -1.20 and has to tear down, and is certified legal, and the run is under the current NHRA record, I think NHRA should give them the record. As it is, you get NOTHING for going -1.20 except the 'privilege' of tearing down and getting HP-what? __________________ Mike Moller NHRA 203 Q-R-T/SA Last edited by MikeMoller; 10-31-2021 at 10:23 AM.

10-31-2021, 01:09 PM	#8
1347 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Monroe Twp NJ Posts: 454 Likes: 932 Liked 928 Times in 241 Posts	Re: Easy way to help AHFS work Give points to #1 qualifier, a little competition at getting points along with the bye run may help. __________________ Duane Hoven 1342 SS/GT

10-31-2021, 01:47 PM	#10
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 759 Likes: 16 Liked 625 Times in 86 Posts	Re: Easy way to help AHFS work AHFS will never work with its current leadership. Now if Lonnie Grimm cleans house/ eliminates the problem, then it might have a chance but let’s face it AHFS has had the same problems 10-15 plus years now. 1. You can run -1.10 at an event and go to the next event and make 2 passes at -.55 to bring your average back to under-.80 making it safe from HP. This window to lower your combo average are passes of -.85 to -.35. This window is way to big. I mean how can some make an argument that one weekend a guy runs -1.00 and the next weekend there making runs at below -.60. to pull the average down. There is no logic to this window. Personally, if a combo can run -1.00 then no runs under -.65 should count in lowering the class average 2. I Think the most important thing that will help AHFS work and put NEEDED performance back in the SS/STK class is going to a 48 or 64 car field at ALL National events (But INDY). Let’s face it the national event quotes are not going back to 80 plus cars per class at most national events so let’s just meet in the middle make all the quotes 70 cars per stk and ss. This will make guys step on there cars a little more frequently. I personal would like to see 48 car national event fields with around 60-65 car quotes. This would reward the #1 with the potential semi final bye into the final. I would leave points meet at 128 car fields and national open at all run field. This would create a kind of steppingstone affect for the class depend on you combos performance. This would also eliminate the 105 points Issue for winning a 6 or 7 round national event (East Coast VS West Coast) if all the National events were a 6 round max to win. 3. All runs of over -1.00 should have a min carb/TB check, casting # check and a PG if time permitting. __________________ Charley Downing 3548 STK Last edited by Charley Downing; 10-31-2021 at 02:25 PM.

10-28-2021, 09:42 AM	#1
thomas sheehan Photographer Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,717 Likes: 24 Liked 77 Times in 30 Posts	Easy way to help AHFS work Do you want to see racers qualify with all out runs? Do you want to make the AHFS system work. Give the racer a reason to cut her loose! How about a first round BYE? Not just for #1..... but how about 1-10 byes in round one? Do you know anyone that would rather run against someone in round 1 rather than take a BYE run?... (answer is NO) If someone wants to take a chance that their -.90 run will get them in the top ten (while running their restrictor plate, they take a chance that others will bump them out of the BYE group. Here's where we use "Out of the box thinking"... NHRA uses a "randomizer" after all qualifying is complete, and then lets everyone know how many bye runs there will be. One week there could be 10, next week 7, next week 5... who knows? Maybe they even guarantee 5 first round byes per race. Then everyone shoots for top 5 Just look at the guys that cut her loose at the end of the year to get #1 spots for nothing more than a first round BYE,10 more points, and not having to run anyone in the dreaded first round! If more people are chasing a first round BYE, more people go fast and make the AHFS work.... "It ain't that hard to do" REWARDS BRING RESULTS __________________ Tom Sheehan SS GT/NA 1046

10-28-2021, 12:36 PM	#2
GTS340 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Las Vegas, Nv Posts: 751 Likes: 192 Liked 1,077 Times in 338 Posts	Re: Easy way to help AHFS work And the ladder formula is?