Stocker Cam Question

Alan Warman · 09-14-2009, 11:38 PM

A lot of my questions was answered in the stock valve lift thread. The problem I am having is I just got my car running and was at a test&tune, and lost a lobe off the cam, it had 19 passes on it. I found out what I did wrong, boy that was a expensive lesson. The cam was Bullet cam with Sherman lifters for a 307 Olds. I was thinking about buying a set of Smith Machine lifters, are they that beneficial. Do you need to prep the cam any certain why. Like having it Cryogenic and the REM finish but on it. I really would like not to do this again.

Jeff Lee · 09-15-2009, 01:08 AM

Send your cam and whatever lifters you choose to www.machdevelopment.com They can set you up with reasonably priced "hydraulic" lifters. They will coat the cam and lifters with a proprietary coating. They have tested successfully coatings on these parts using race stocker springs and engine at idle on initial start up with no wear.
Sorry about your problem, but if it makes you feel better, your not the only one with this problem. Take the engine COMPLETELY apart. Trust me, I learned that one the hard way after a Schubeck lifter exploded on me. Thought a pan drop and a good cleaning would suffice...wrong!

Alan Roehrich · 09-15-2009, 05:12 AM

Jeff is correct. Any cam/lifter failure means the entire engine needs to come down, all the way to a bare block. The metal from that failure is in the oil, and everywhere oil went, that metal is present. The only way to remove all of it, and keep it from causing other failures, is to tear all the way down and clean it all completely. It will even embed itself into the piston skirts, and unless you get it all out of there, it will continue to ruin the cylinder wall finish, and a good set of rings will never seat or stay seated.

Competition Cams has an in house gas nitriding treatment, they get $100 to do a cam you buy from them.

We still run the three sets of Shubeck lifters we've had for a few years.

Some are having luck with the PPPC tool steel lifters, as well as the PRI lifters. Several have had problems with the DLC coating coming off. PRI prefers to have you send them your cam, they polish your cam until it looks like it has been chrome plated. It still requires a regular break in process.

Alan Warman · 09-15-2009, 12:21 PM

Thanks guys,I new I had to tear it down and clean every thing. I see guys all the time just put in another cam and lifters and go, my luck is not that good. What we think went wrong, was the I way I was adjusting the valves. Since I am a old mopar guy, I did it the mopar way. Kirk at Bullet thanks I was not all the way on the heel of the cam. Witch resulted in to much lash. My spring pressure is about 365 over the nose, and I used Royal Purple brake in oil. The engine was a pain in the a#% to adjust the valves on.The Sherman lifters said to adjust to zero to -.005 lash.The car would not run adjusted that why,had to back off to +.005 to get it to run. It run well with just 19 passes on it,I went six tenths under my index. Alan,I could not find PRI or PPPC on th web.

Alan Roehrich · 09-15-2009, 01:03 PM

Performance Research Incorporated, and Precision Performance Products Company.

greg fulk · 09-15-2009, 06:22 PM

what rocker arm set-up do you have????

Chris Hill · 09-16-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Warman

Thanks guys,I new I had to tear it down and clean every thing. I see guys all the time just put in another cam and lifters and go, my luck is not that good. What we think went wrong, was the I way I was adjusting the valves. Since I am a old mopar guy, I did it the mopar way. Kirk at Bullet thanks I was not all the way on the heel of the cam. Witch resulted in to much lash. My spring pressure is about 365 over the nose, and I used Royal Purple brake in oil. The engine was a pain in the a#% to adjust the valves on.The Sherman lifters said to adjust to zero to -.005 lash.The car would not run adjusted that why,had to back off to +.005 to get it to run. It run well with just 19 passes on it,I went six tenths under my index. Alan,I could not find PRI or PPPC on th web.

Did the lobe wear out on the opening flank or at peak lift?

RockyJ · 09-16-2009, 11:14 AM

Chris: Are you getting old or what? Allready forgot our conversation of
a year ago. Go to 21tek.com to see the solution then ask ron mattson.

RockyJ · 09-17-2009, 09:48 AM

Hi Jim : I have had so much demand the last few weeks ,i guess i will have to go back to work. I hope this is a good sign for the economy.
our new phone 480-275-4181 will get you 21TEK and SurfaceSciences

both of my PC's got a virus so i cant change the phone # on the web site or the address
they are both outdated ,so you have to call and i will give you the new ship address

james schaechter · 09-17-2009, 12:05 PM

Great! I will give you a call. Those rocker arms that you treated have been trouble free and I want to do some for the other engine.

09-14-2009, 11:38 PM	#1
Alan Warman Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: San Angelo Tx Posts: 231 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Stocker Cam Question A lot of my questions was answered in the stock valve lift thread. The problem I am having is I just got my car running and was at a test&tune, and lost a lobe off the cam, it had 19 passes on it. I found out what I did wrong, boy that was a expensive lesson. The cam was Bullet cam with Sherman lifters for a 307 Olds. I was thinking about buying a set of Smith Machine lifters, are they that beneficial. Do you need to prep the cam any certain why. Like having it Cryogenic and the REM finish but on it. I really would like not to do this again. __________________ Alan Warman STK 4107

09-15-2009, 01:08 AM	#2
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question Send your cam and whatever lifters you choose to www.machdevelopment.com They can set you up with reasonably priced "hydraulic" lifters. They will coat the cam and lifters with a proprietary coating. They have tested successfully coatings on these parts using race stocker springs and engine at idle on initial start up with no wear. Sorry about your problem, but if it makes you feel better, your not the only one with this problem. Take the engine COMPLETELY apart. Trust me, I learned that one the hard way after a Schubeck lifter exploded on me. Thought a pan drop and a good cleaning would suffice...wrong! __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

09-15-2009, 05:12 AM	#3
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,095 Likes: 1,541 Liked 1,769 Times in 402 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question Jeff is correct. Any cam/lifter failure means the entire engine needs to come down, all the way to a bare block. The metal from that failure is in the oil, and everywhere oil went, that metal is present. The only way to remove all of it, and keep it from causing other failures, is to tear all the way down and clean it all completely. It will even embed itself into the piston skirts, and unless you get it all out of there, it will continue to ruin the cylinder wall finish, and a good set of rings will never seat or stay seated. Competition Cams has an in house gas nitriding treatment, they get $100 to do a cam you buy from them. We still run the three sets of Shubeck lifters we've had for a few years. Some are having luck with the PPPC tool steel lifters, as well as the PRI lifters. Several have had problems with the DLC coating coming off. PRI prefers to have you send them your cam, they polish your cam until it looks like it has been chrome plated. It still requires a regular break in process. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

09-15-2009, 12:21 PM	#4
Alan Warman Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: San Angelo Tx Posts: 231 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question Thanks guys,I new I had to tear it down and clean every thing. I see guys all the time just put in another cam and lifters and go, my luck is not that good. What we think went wrong, was the I way I was adjusting the valves. Since I am a old mopar guy, I did it the mopar way. Kirk at Bullet thanks I was not all the way on the heel of the cam. Witch resulted in to much lash. My spring pressure is about 365 over the nose, and I used Royal Purple brake in oil. The engine was a pain in the a#% to adjust the valves on.The Sherman lifters said to adjust to zero to -.005 lash.The car would not run adjusted that why,had to back off to +.005 to get it to run. It run well with just 19 passes on it,I went six tenths under my index. Alan,I could not find PRI or PPPC on th web. __________________ Alan Warman STK 4107

09-15-2009, 01:03 PM	#5
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,095 Likes: 1,541 Liked 1,769 Times in 402 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question Performance Research Incorporated, and Precision Performance Products Company. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

09-15-2009, 06:22 PM	#6
greg fulk VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: jackson Posts: 1,165 Likes: 0 Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question what rocker arm set-up do you have???? __________________ Greg Fulk 308 308X P/SA "ALL AMERICAN"

09-16-2009, 11:14 AM	#8
RockyJ Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 47 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question Chris: Are you getting old or what? Allready forgot our conversation of a year ago. Go to 21tek.com to see the solution then ask ron mattson.

09-17-2009, 09:48 AM	#9
RockyJ Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 47 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question Hi Jim : I have had so much demand the last few weeks ,i guess i will have to go back to work. I hope this is a good sign for the economy. our new phone 480-275-4181 will get you 21TEK and SurfaceSciences both of my PC's got a virus so i cant change the phone # on the web site or the address they are both outdated ,so you have to call and i will give you the new ship address

09-17-2009, 12:05 PM	#10
james schaechter VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cumming GA Posts: 1,985 Likes: 1,277 Liked 1,424 Times in 294 Posts	Re: Stocker Cam Question Great! I will give you a call. Those rocker arms that you treated have been trouble free and I want to do some for the other engine. __________________ James Schaechter 3163 STK